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  #1  
Old 06-17-2005, 03:21 PM
jefferis jefferis is offline
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Exclamation Backup without erasing?

I have a backup firewire disk that has 2 disks backed up on it [boot and another], but just got SuperDuper. I'd like to clone my boot disk without erasing the extra files on the backup. It SEEMS that all the SD options say they will erase the files on the backup not on the original.

What is the best way to backup the drive or at least user directory, without wiping out the other data?

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Jeff
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2005, 03:24 PM
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dnanian dnanian is offline
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Well, the best thing to do is repartition to have a place to put the backups in isolation. You can partition "live" with iPartition from Coriolis Systems.

But, there are alternatives. To just copy to the source, without erasing anything, you can use either "Copy Newer" or "Copy Different", neither of which will erase files (though some might be overwritten). Note, though, that this type of backup is NOT guaranteed to be bootable, since OS files might need to be erased to ensure this will work.

Alternatively, you can back up to a sparse image as described in http://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81. That can stay side by side. While an image can't be booted from directly, if updated with Smart Update it'll retain its bootability on restore.
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2005, 06:24 PM
jefferis jefferis is offline
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No Safe User with those methods?

I take it that with either of these Copy methods, you won't be able to have a Safe User backup then, for keeping a live backup of the current boot user?
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2005, 06:29 PM
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I'm not sure what a "Safe User" back up is...
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  #5  
Old 06-17-2005, 07:51 PM
jefferis jefferis is offline
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Found it

I found that if you select Safety clone users and applications and choose Copy only New files, it copies without erasing the existing files AND creates the clone of the User folder for safe backups. I wanted to use the active user backup files as promised in the materials as well as back up without erasing the target disk. This procedure may be just what i needed.
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  #6  
Old 06-17-2005, 07:57 PM
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I don't think so, actually.

For one thing, the Safety Clone does not copy your user files. It links to them, on the original volume. As such, it's not a backup at all -- it's more of a checkpoint of your system.

On top of that, you can only do the "Copy Newer" one time. Future attempts to update the Safety Clone will not guarantee bootability, or even a very valid system, because things won't be copied properly...

I really don't think you should be doing this... you should partition if you're going to attempt more advanced things like the Safety Clone.
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2005, 09:10 PM
jefferis jefferis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnanian
I don't think so, actually.

For one thing, the Safety Clone does not copy your user files. It links to them, on the original volume. As such, it's not a backup at all -- it's more of a checkpoint of your system.
I really don't think you should be doing this... you should partition if you're going to attempt more advanced things like the Safety Clone.

I guess I misunderstood what "any changes made to these files [User files] will automatically be reflected on the other, ensuring you can recover..." means. What happens now then if I use the Backup- User files but choose only different or Smart update? Since the user files I guess have not been copied yet...

I may do the partition thing next, but I'm just trying to make a protected backup before I risk a partition...
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2005, 01:28 AM
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Understood, but I'm suggesting partitioning the external drive, not the internal. Backing up something onto the external and then partitioning it won't really protect you, since the external is what would need to be protected.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2005, 09:16 AM
jefferis jefferis is offline
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Clarifcation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnanian
Understood, but I'm suggesting partitioning the external drive, not the internal. Backing up something onto the external and then partitioning it won't really protect you, since the external is what would need to be protected.
I don't think I made myself clear. I am going to backup the external to a third drive used only for backup. If I partition the 1st backup, I'm going to be given some choices. I have used Carbon Copy cloner in the past, but i was getting disk corruptions [apparently related to Spotlight, but not sure], so I bought SuperDuper as a currently updated program. I wanted a secure backup which is bootable and an exact clone of the system and user files. I am migrating from an old FW 400 to a FW800 as my main backup external, and both disks are 160 gig, which are bigger than the internal 60 gig boot drive. So, to make a long story long :-), I was trying to drag files back and forth/backup to reformat the old external 400 without losing files in the process. I now have more active and needed files on the 800 than are on my internal drive, and I have backed this drive up to the 400.

The problem is I now have no backup of my Tiger system on my boot drive, which I want to clone to a secure backup before I attempt the partitioning. {my external drives have 10.3.9 on them from the older CCC clone operation}.

I think I misunderstood the literature when I got SuperDuper. Since the backup all files thing doesn't actually clone the user files by places them in third location ??? to keep them simultaneously updated on both drives??? I'm wondering if I actually am making a clone at all...
The options in the dialog box becomes more than confusing with the explanations. Perhaps you can help me by explaining where the safety clone actually resides syncing the boot user files with the backup....

Thanks
Jeff
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2005, 11:05 AM
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"Backup - all files" does, indeed, copy all the user files. It's "Safety Clone" that doesn't.

The main difference between the two is that while "Backup - all files" backs up / copies "all files" (as its name says), the "Safety Clone" copies the OS, and shares most applications and the user files by "linking" (aliasing) them to the original copies on the original volume. You can see this by examining the "Users" or "Applications" folders on the clone: they're filled with links/aliases. Those links point to the files on the original drive.

So, the Safety Clone is not a backup at all. It's a checkpoint of the system files, and lets you play in an "OS Sandbox" -- a safe place you can boot to and install updates. If you have trouble, you can roll back to the original by just rebooting. But since the User Files weren't copied -- they were shared -- any changes you made to your *own* data is still there, and up to date.

Make more sense?
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2005, 04:30 PM
absinthe absinthe is offline
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May I interject a simple question here? Is there any reason why backing up (drag & drop) the User files folder to a backup firewire drive is not sufficient for simply backing up the files in question?

I, too, find myself reluctant to erase the backup drive each time I want to backup my User files. As for partitioning, I understand the point being made, but my User files folder can greatly expand and shrink in size with any given project I'm working on... so partitioning the external drive may not be the most efficient way (memory-wise) for me to use it.
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2005, 04:58 PM
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It is sufficient, in general, as long as you can read/write the files (and the external drive has ownership turned on). But, it's not necessarily very fast, since all of the files will be copied every time.

There's no reason to erase the backup drive every time you want to backup your user files. In fact, there's no reason for most users to back up the user files separately. Just use "Backup - all files" with Smart Update. It won't erase the whole drive, it'll just update the things that are changed, user files, system files, whatever. It's not slow...
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Old 06-22-2005, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnanian
There's no reason to erase the backup drive every time you want to backup your user files. In fact, there's no reason for most users to back up the user files separately. Just use "Backup - all files" with Smart Update. It won't erase the whole drive, it'll just update the things that are changed, user files, system files, whatever. It's not slow...
Just to be clear, your advised procedure above must be applied to a backup drive that has been erased and copied via SuperDuper in the first place... right? In other words, I still need to run SD the first time on a backup drive that contains no other important files, or I will lose them in the initial backup process... correct?

Or can I leave important files on a backup drive, AND initiate a new SD backup procedure with no worries?
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2005, 05:12 PM
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Yes, a backup should be placed on its own partition if you're using "Smart Update" or "Erase, then copy". What I'm saying is that there's no reason to subsequently update the user files, rather than the "whole" backup: it won't save you any time, really...

But, you an have important, non-backup files on a *drive*. Just not on the same *partition* if you're using Smart Update or Erase, then copy.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2005, 08:43 PM
absinthe absinthe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnanian
Yes, a backup should be placed on its own partition if you're using "Smart Update" or "Erase, then copy". What I'm saying is that there's no reason to subsequently update the user files, rather than the "whole" backup: it won't save you any time, really...

But, you an have important, non-backup files on a *drive*. Just not on the same *partition* if you're using Smart Update or Erase, then copy.
Thank you. That's what I wanted to confirm... I need to do some drive partitioning!
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