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macWish 05-16-2005 01:47 PM

Disk Utility problem after cloning
 
I have G4 1 Ghz iMac, 512 MB RAM. OS X 10.4

After installing Tiger on internal HD, everything seemed to work without any problems (but don't ask me about Spotlight!).
I then set up my External LaCie D2 Firewire 400 HD with three partitions:
1. Backup: a partition for backup of Documents and other User files using DataBackUp 2.0.5;
b. HD Clone: bootable 'Backup All Files" clone of internal HD created with SuperDuper! 1.5.5;
c. Startup Clone: bootable "Safety clone - shared users and applications" created with SuperDuper. I use this as my startup disk.

When I startup up on my Internal HD and launch Disk Utility to repair permissions and repair disk on the partitions on the External Firewire HD, no problems reported with any of the partitions

If I start up on the Startup Clone on external HD and run Disk Utility, I can perform the Repair Disk function on the other two partitions on the external hard drive. However, when I try to Repair Disk on the Internal HD, a task which always worked prior to installing Tiger, I get the error message: Unable to Unmount Volume - the first step of verifying and repairing a disk. The reason for this failure appears to be an open file/application on the hard drive.

The same problem occurs if I boot from the External HD Clone (i.e. the complete clone).

The same problem occurs if I boot from an eDrive created with TechToolPro 4.0.4 on its own partition on the external firewire drive. Disk Warrior on the eDrive also fails to unmount the internal HD.

However, it I boot from a bootable CD or DVD containing Disk Utility, then the latter functions without any problems and fails to find anything to repair on internal HD. Can also repair internal HD by launching it as single user and repairing internal HD with AppleJack.

There seems to be a problem with the cloning process with both SuperDuper! and TechToolPro such that Disk Utility (and Disk Warrior) act as if there is an open file/application on the internal hard drive when the startup disk is on a cloned drive on an external firewire drive.

The following did not correct the problem:
1. Disabling Spotlight via terminal use of mdutil and deleting .Spotlight index files from all drives;
2. Disabling Dashboard by quitting Dock.

Any suggestions?

dnanian 05-16-2005 02:52 PM

You should be able to see what file is actually 'open' on the volume using lsof. Try the following:

- Boot from the clone
- Open Terminal
- Use the command:

lsof | grep "internal-volume-name"

That should tell you who/what is holding the drive open...

macWish 05-16-2005 06:07 PM

No luck
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian
You should be able to see what file is actually 'open' on the volume using lsof. Try the following:

- Boot from the clone
- Open Terminal
- Use the command:

lsof | grep "internal-volume-name"

That should tell you who/what is holding the drive open...

It looks as if there are a lot of files on the internal hard drive that are open when I boot from the clone. I have attached the Terminal output text file of
lsof | grep "internal-volume-name". This seems to be a problem unique to Tiger as it never happened with the OS 10.3.9 and earlier versions.

dnanian 05-16-2005 06:11 PM

Given that, are you sure you're not running from a Safety Clone, as opposed to a full "Backup - all files" clone?

If not, try naming the backup the *same* as the internal drive, smart update it, and then boot from it. (I explain elsewhere on the forums about aliases resolving using the volume name...)

lstuff 05-16-2005 06:26 PM

which one do I use?
 
I am trying to use the super duper. Which pull down window do I use to use just the cloner part?

dnanian 05-16-2005 06:30 PM

Hi, lstuff.

Choose the source in the first pop-up, the destination in the 2nd, and "Backup - all files" in the 3rd.

(Let me suggest that you check out section 3 of the User's Guide, too. That has all the details.)

macWish 05-16-2005 06:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian
Given that, are you sure you're not running from a Safety Clone, as opposed to a full "Backup - all files" clone?

If not, try naming the backup the *same* as the internal drive, smart update it, and then boot from it. (I explain elsewhere on the forums about aliases resolving using the volume name...)

My startup disk is a Safety clone. I also have a "Backup - all files" clone. WHen I startup from the full clone, I get the same error with Disk Utility and Disk Warrior run from the startup disk. Since Disk Utility is not aliased to the internal drive on either the Safety clone or the full clone, it should not be aliasing the DU on the internal drive. The same problem occurs with the eDrive cloned by Techtool Pro.

For reasons beyond me, only my internal drive shows up on the desktop. None of the partitions on the external fire drive show up on the desktop. I did not realize they were not there because I have Finder Preferences set not to show the disks on the desktop since I can access them via DragThing or via a Finder Folder where they all show up. The desktop appears to be only place I can try to rename the Safety Clone, short of recloning it with same name as internal drive, if SuperDuper allows that.

For what it is worth, I attached the output of open files when I booted from the Full Clone. It is much smaller.

dnanian 05-16-2005 06:52 PM

Well, the Safety Clone is always going to have a lot of files opened on the original drive, because those items are shared. So that's normal.

But, the "Full Clone" is likely doing this because it's not named the same as the original "Macintosh HD" -- try that, Smart Update it, and I think it'll be resolved.

Disk Utility/Disk Warrior aren't causing the problems as such -- these other items that have auto-started on you are... and those are starting from the original drive, due to the naming & aliases (these are internally stored aliases, not ones you create yourself).

I can't explain the eDrive because I don't know how exactly they do what they do... sorry.

macWish 05-16-2005 07:40 PM

But why did this problem appear with Tiger when it did not exist in Panther?

dnanian 05-17-2005 12:26 AM

I can't answer that: it should have happened and both, and does in our testing...

macWish 05-17-2005 08:31 AM

New Full Clone
 
I renamed a partition on external drive the same as the internal HD and did a full backup-all files. I then booted from the Full Clone. Disk Utility still unable to unmount the internal hd. Assuming that there are no other problems than this unmounting one, I will not try any other work arounds at the moment. When I do want to repair the disk on the internal hard drive, I'll do it in single user mode with AppleJack.

Now with OS X 10.4.1 released this morning, the process may start all over, all nothing in the news of the update mentions this problem and I have yet to hear back from my bug report to Apple.

dnanian 05-17-2005 10:26 AM

OK. This isn't something we've seen here, macWish, and it doesn't seem SuperDuper! specific, so it's hard for me to provide any other suggestions at present...

macWish 05-17-2005 11:46 AM

Problems with giving external clone same name as internal HD
 
I renamed by full clone on the external firewire drive, giving it the same name as the name of the internal HD. I made full clone - backup all files - and then booted the external full clone. No problem booting, but disk utility launched from the external drive still fails to be able to unmount the internal HD. Moreover by having two volumes with the same name, all of the aliases got very screwed up, i.e. an alias in drag strip to a folder on in Documents failed to open the proper folder and seemed not to know whether to use the internal or the external volume with same name.

Update to OS X 10.4.1 did not solve the problem with unmounting internal HD when booted from Safety Clone or from Full Clone or from eDrive on external firewire drive.

dnanian 05-17-2005 12:00 PM

The aliases got screwed up? That's strange, because they should go right to the internal drive: after all, they go by name.

Strange. I've tried to duplicate the problem here without luck... anyone else seeing this when the volumes are named identically?

macWish 05-17-2005 08:48 PM

Well this problem is certainly not unique to SuperDuper!. Other programs which clone the internal hard drive to my external firewire drive result in the same problem, namely TechTool Pro 4.0.4 (Tiger compatible) and Data Backup 2.0.5 (Tiger Compatible). None of them (and SuperDuper!) had any difficulty producing clones with Panther. With Tiger, all of them create clones which make Disk Utility unable to check the internal hard drive because of bug in unmounting the drive.


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