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-   -   SuperDuper vs Tiger - slower backups? (https://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682)

dnanian 09-25-2005 03:37 PM

I have no plans to make any modifications at all to address any issues with Haxies: that's the obligation of the Haxie developer. If the Haxie significantly affects performance, as it does in this case, the Haxie itself needs to be optimized.

The other delay is, I'm guessing, the effect of Spotlight, given that it was significantly faster in Safe Mode (which disables Spotlight). v2.0 does disable spotlight during the backup, so that will likely help with this.

2stepbay 09-25-2005 08:36 PM

Thanks for the explanation and clarification. I understand your position. As a developer I guess you would go a bit nuts trying to workaround different 3rd party items, especially those having deficient coding

So either the Unsanity products have not been optimized correctly for Tiger, or Tiger treats them differently than Panther (don't know enough about programming to make an educated guess). I e-mailed the developers of Unsanity about this situation. I'll let you know what they say.

I guess for the moment, I either disable the haxie before running SuperDuper, or I just live with the slowdown. :(

dnanian 09-25-2005 09:33 PM

I don't mean to be harsh about the haxies, but if it's slowing things down, it needs to not do that... my guess is that this is the Labels haxie, so I'd try to turn that particular one...

2stepbay 09-26-2005 12:00 PM

Label Haxie
 
Your guess is spot on. When I disabled the Label Haxie, backup time dropped to about 10 minutes. I've sent a second e-mail to Unsanity about this situation. Stay tuned....

dnanian 09-26-2005 12:17 PM

Thought it might be. Thanks for letting me (and anyone else who might be experiencing a similar problem) know!

brich 09-26-2005 07:18 PM

I'm using Unsanity's Fruit Menu with APE in Tiger, and I find that my incremental backup speed seems fine...even better after applying the chown suggestion...just as a point of additional info re haxies and SuperDuper.

dnanian 09-26-2005 07:26 PM

Right, brich: it's not so much haxies, but file-system-interfering haxies (which, if you think about it, Labels is...)

2stepbay 09-28-2005 02:12 PM

Getting to the core
 
Well here are two responses from Unsanity regarding the effect "Labels" may have on the SuperDuper cloning process:

Response #1: "Is Labels X the only haxie you have installed? Labels X shouldn't affect the speed of backing up at all. Especially since I believe SuperDuper runs a tool as root (which APE won't affect)."

My reply: (in part) "The only Haxies I'm using are Unsanity's. Besides Ape, I'm using Fruit Menu, Clear Dock and Labels. When I have disabled Fruit Menu, there is no change in the backup speed. Same with Clear Dock. However, when I disable Labels, my backup speed improves 100% from approximately 20 minutes to 10 minutes."

Unsanity's reply: "Labels X doesn't touch the file system. HFS+ directly supports Labels so there is no reason whatsoever for it to interfere with the file system. The only time Labels X does anything is when drawing icons. Does SuperDuper show the icon of every single file it is backing up while it is backing up? I just tried SuperDuper using a complete backup to disk image and it uses a root tool (SVUclone) to do it's copying. APEs will *not* affect root processes so nothing LX does could be affecting its speed. Have you tried running SuperDuper and minimizing the window with the progress bar?"

Funny thing happened as I was typing this post. I had a look at the HD location for the various haxies. Fruit Menu and Clear Dock were in /library/application enhancers, while Labels was located at ~/library/application enhancers (disabled). At first I thought the extended time factor might be due to Labels being in a User Library vs the other two in the /Library. So I enabled Labels again, logged in and ran SuperDuper. This time the backup was just under 11 minutes. Hmmmm, which is the approximate time experienced after disabling Labels. Go figure. Perhaps disabling/re-enabling the haxie reset something, or changed one of the system markers? In the meantime, I'm going to relocate Labels to /library and try another clone.

----------------------
After moving Labels to /Library/Application Enhancers, clone was 11:26, a bit slower than the last one, however, much improved from the earlier clones.

Comments? Thanks Dave

dnanian 09-28-2005 05:47 PM

Perhaps more was changing run-to-run than you thought? Or, maybe, it was spotlight?

2stepbay 09-28-2005 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian
Perhaps more was changing run-to-run than you thought? Or, maybe, it was spotlight?

Possibly. However, I cloned the HD 3 consecutive times (no other system activity), and each time the elapsed clone time varied from the previous clone (15, 17 20+ minutes). At this point I disabled "labels". Afterward, the subsequent clone time dropped significantly to around 10 - 11 minutes. Sure seemed like "labels" was the culprit.

The oddest part is after re-enabling "labels", the clone time remained pretty much around 10 - 11 minutes, even though there were changes to unrelated files. That sure tells me something odd was happening. I don't think its spotlight, given I included your "shut off" Script prior to cloning.

If anything strange happens I'll let you know.

As I use Tiger I realize there are still quirks in its operation. Perhaps, all this changes with 10.4.3. In the meantime, I'm glad to see the shorter clone time. Thank you for your help. Appreciate it.

On another note, during this protracted process, I ran Disk Warrior from one of my partitioned clones checking my HD directory. As the system booted I realized I don't really need all the add-ons for simply running DW. Basically, I'd like to create a cloned partition that has a very basic Tiger installed (I'd remove the User files, most applications etc.). Is there a simple way to do this, or would I simply install Tiger on the partition and modify it from there. Thanks.

dnanian 09-28-2005 10:55 PM

I'd just do the latter...

sjk 09-29-2005 06:24 AM

Not that it matters, but Unsanity just released Labels X 1.7.1.

dnanian 09-29-2005 08:42 AM

Yep, saw that. Supposedly a drawing fix more than anything else.

Another thing I was thinking of, 2stepbay: you might want to ensure all Finder windows are closed. Perhaps -- even perhaps due to the Haxie -- the window itself is drawing more often, or differently, and that's causing CPU to be used?

2stepbay 09-29-2005 11:54 AM

Yeah, I saw the update to Labels...things that make you say hmmmmmmm. :rolleyes:

I'll make sure all finder windows are closed before the clone. If I notice a significant change in BU time, I'll post back.

On to Version 2! :cool: the holidaze are coming, you know! ;)

dnanian 09-29-2005 12:09 PM

Yes -- SuperDuper!, the gift that keeps on giving? ;)

Keep a look on the blog... I'll be posting something about v2.0's progress again soon.


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