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polarbear 02-02-2006 11:41 AM

SD failed to quit & iTunes
Hi, Dave!

I'm finally implementing a backup solution and have given SuperDuper! a spin. Here are my questions.

I have a 80GB laptop drive in two partitions: A (8.5GB), B (66GB). A is a bootable OS X 10.3.9 with recovery tools, B is the same but my usual boot partition. I have a 300GB drive (Seagate Barracuda) in a FireWire case (AMS Venus DS3** which is USB 2.0/FireWire 400). I partitioned it: C (80GB), D (199GB).

**Model DS-2316CBK if anyone is interested. It works with Mac for FireWire booting. Has a 4 pin FireWire port and a 6 pin, so you can daisy chain. Comes with a power adapter with a normal plug that won't hog more than one outlet.

1. I wanted to copy B to C.
2. Test to see if I can reboot off of C (which should have B's system files).
3. Move my personal files off of B onto D, and clear out some of the files from C to D***
4. Reformat the laptop completely. Likely I'll go back to the one partition default.
5. Copy C back to the laptop (or reinstall from scratch if this is not possible, but it seems to be ok).

***The D partition I plan to organize as a complete archive of my disparate files, manually, in the best OS 9-era- spacial-finder- personal-folder-structure tradition. SuperDuper! will not be handling the archive part, just the backup to C.

Refuses to quit

I thought I managed the first step. I only had SuperDuper running, and after the copy I had wanted to reboot from C to see if it would work. I got:

Logout has timed out because the
application SuperDuper failed to quit. To
try again, quit SuperDuper and choose
Log Out from the Apple menu.

You can use the Force Quit menu item in the Apple
menu (or press Command+Option+Esc) to quit an
unresponsive application.
[ OK ]

So I just quit the app and restarted. Here's the console for launching SuperDuper! but before copying:

## Component Manager: attempting to find symbols in a component alias of type (imdc/MP42/MSFT)
crontab: no crontab for polarbear
2006-02-01 19:42:36.629 SuperDuper![737] attribute terminology dictionary not found for attribute path in class AbstractObject in suite NSCoreSuite
2006-02-01 19:42:36.629 SuperDuper![737] attribute terminology dictionary not found for attribute path in class NSDocument in suite NSCoreSuite
2006-02-01 19:42:36.629 SuperDuper![737] attribute terminology dictionary not found for attribute path in class SDSessionSettings in suite SuperDuperSuite

And this is after the above error occured:

2006-02-01 21:12:59.017 SuperDuper![737] ***ERROR OCCURRED: ## Component Manager: attempting to find symbols in a component alias of type (imdc/MP42/MSFT)

The end of the SuperDuper log gives:

| 09:12:52 PM | Info | PHASE: 3. After Successful Copy
| 09:12:52 PM | Info | ...ACTION: Making North Pole bootable
| 09:12:52 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Blessing OS X System Folder
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | Successfully blessed Mac OS X folder on North Pole
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Blessing OS 9 System Folder
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | Successfully blessed Mac OS 9 System Folder on North Pole
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Restoring Spotlight search indexing state on North Pole
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | Indexing was not enabled because North Pole is not a 10.4 Volume
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | PHASE: 4. And Finally...
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | ...ACTION: Rebooting from North Pole
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Setting startup disk to North Pole
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | Successfully set North Pole as startup disk
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Restarting computer
| 09:12:56 PM | Info | Copy complete.

| 09:12:59 PM | Error | ## Component Manager: attempting to find symbols in a component alias of type (imdc/MP42/MSFT)

I rebooted with haxies off if that's the next question.

Manually quitting (from the menubar) and restarting gives me a copy booting from the backup. Yay! :)


If I make a backup of my iTunes library and restore this to the same computer, will it subtract one from the number of computers I can play my songs on? I don't think it would, but I fear some weird application of DRM and/or Murphy's Law!

dnanian 02-02-2006 12:01 PM

It looks like when we try to quit SD! (which we do with "osascript"), it's giving an error due to a bad component. I'm not sure what this particular component is, but it might even be removed -- I'd try rebuilding your LaunchServices database (use Onyx or similar) and restarting to see if it clears up.

A failure to quit is also a known issue if you used Erase-then-copy, and is fixed in the next release. However, that would generate an exception in the Console, not this particular error, so I don't think that's necessarily the problem here.

As far as iTunes goes, it shouldn't subtract an activation, as the activation is not based on the drive -- it's based, as far as I know, on the computer's serial number, etc. Reactivation of the same computer won't deduct an activation.

Hope that helps!

polarbear 02-02-2006 12:15 PM

Thanks for the quick reply!

I run some maintenance and see if that component thing clears up.

Something new:

I just launched my mail app (PowerMail) from backup and see that my default reading font, Andale Mono, is reset to Monaco. Andale Mono is stored in the OS 9/Classic folder. Would this be a setting or link to the font that is cached and therefore not copied? I'm going to reboot and see if the original still uses it.

dnanian 02-02-2006 12:26 PM

No, those things are copied. But PowerMail might refer to it in an unusual way. Try booting back, then rename the backup to the same name as the source. Then, Smart Update the backup and boot from it again.

If the font doesn't show up, open FontBook and verify that it's in there...

polarbear 02-02-2006 01:21 PM

I booted back up on the laptop and renamed the drive. Now I have two source drives "Arctic" and "Arctic 1". I suspect Arctic is the original Arctic, but I'm not really sure which is which. :eek: Sorry, that's too close. The pop-up list is in alphabetical order which doesn't help. I named it differently to prevent confusion!

I had applied a custom icon to my laptop partition. The backup partition has the same icon. Now my desktop has two identical looking drives, even with the name. It doesn't add the " 1" to the Desktop icon name. What if the Finder resets and resorts the desktop icon order? (This rarely happens, but in moments like these...) While I know about the set_icon script, I didn't run it at the time. I'm guessing this would have allowed me to see the external partitions as external. This icon thing should not be a poweruser step.

I renamed the backup to its original name, but I don't even want to run just the set_icon script to fix it. I had opened my e-mail database and added mail to it on the backup. But I had to open it on the original to see if the font was different (it was Andale Mono, so that's ok). Which backup option will not delete my older (yet more up-to-date) mail database on the backup in favor of the newer (because I opened it, not because I added anything to it) mail database on the original? How will I be able to tell the difference between two versions on the backup? :confused:

I'll run some maintentence utilities, but I'm not going to do the renaming step. That the backup has a different name than the original seems to explain it. I think it would help for SuperDuper to distinguish between internal and external drives, and also have some way/option of automatically handling the custom icons issue. Not to perpetuate a bad interface idea, but the popup could identify the bus (by physical hard disk type, ala Disk Utility) as a non-selectable menu item, then have the selectable options on that bus below it, ala the Labels menu item in the Finder (i.e. a non-selectable "Color Label:" then selectable choices below it).

This is not to dis your troubleshooting! But the renaming thing gets creepy. :o

Thanks again for your help. :)

dnanian 02-02-2006 01:52 PM

We won't let you select the boot drive as a target, and Finder always names the boot with the name, and the 2nd drive with "1". (Or "2".)

When you see the volume on the desktop, though, it shows its real volume name, as opposed to its "mount name".

Icons are actually files on the drive, which is why they're copied. (Otherwise, a round-trip wouldn't give you back the same icon.) We're looking into alternate methods of "preservation".

I'm not sure what you mean by the "older, yet more up to date". There aren't two versions on the backup -- we don't keep old version around. So, when you Smart Update, the backup will once again exactly resemble the source...

Thanks for the other suggestions -- I'll keep them in mind!

polarbear 02-02-2006 02:21 PM

It's obvious, but I didn't know that SuperDuper would disallow making the boot drive the target. That's good to know. Makes perfect sense. :)


Originally Posted by dnanian
I'm not sure what you mean by the "older, yet more up to date". There aren't two versions on the backup -- we don't keep old version around. So, when you Smart Update, the backup will once again exactly resemble the source...

I booted from the backup to make sure it was bootable and working. It was.

Since I was going to wipe the original and restore the backup to it after reformatting the original drive, and as I was booted into the backup, I checked for mail, which altered the backup's mail database.

Then I booted back into the original to check and see if my mail program on the original was using Andale Mono. It was.

Now the quandry. I didn't check for mail on the original, but I did open the database in opening the program. Did the mail program silently update the original's mail database file, therefore giving it a newer modification date, although the size would still be smaller than the backup (the backup mail database which I had added new mail to just a few minutes before)?

Some programs seem to do this (InDesign, I think). I open a file, and have changed nothing, but when I close it I am asked "Do you want to save changes?" (I swear this did not happen in OS 9!)

So now, if I Smart Update (or update newer, or update different), does it erase the backup mail database (which I want to keep) because it sees the modification date on the backup as older? I don't think the original mail database was altered in merely opening it to view it, but maybe the mail app changed it... I'm not sure without going to the actual file and doing a "Get Info". If the database on the original was not modified, then the backup version should not be deleted in the updating process, because it has a newer modification date.

Normally this is never a problem. The backup is merely a backup and you don't boot off of it with the intention of anything more than immediately restoring it to a working drive. Only I had altered the backup with the view of shortly making it the primary copy. Hence the hesitation of possibly wiping out changes made to the backup trying to Smart Update it from the original.

I'm afraid rewriting this response will just make it more obtuse. If you read this far, give yourself a gold star. And I will register the software soon so don't worry. :)

dnanian 02-02-2006 02:45 PM

The source drive, in all cases, is the "master", and always wins in conflicts. "Smart Update" is "Copy Different and Delete", so if you smart update the backup, the mail database will be replaced. But it doesn't sound like you did anything with the one one the backup, so I don't think it'll matter at all.

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