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loosegroove
01-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Hello.

I'm wanting to setup SuperDuper on my wife's MacBook. It will perform backups by connecting to a Time Capsule and performing a "Smart Update".

The problem is that she closes the lid during the night and any time she's not using it. In this state, SuperDuper will not perform its magic.

My question is what have others done to get around this? Is there some way you can set up SuperDuper to run the next time the MacBook wakes up? I'm trying to make this automated so she doesn't need to think about running something or worry if her data is actually getting backed up.

I've thought about setting it for a time that she normally is on the computer but I'm looking for a solution for when she's not on at that time and gets on maybe an hour after the scheduled backup.

Thanks!

Bronson

dnanian
01-25-2009, 12:17 PM
It's not really a case we're designed to handle, Bronson: we consciously skip copies that occur when the Mac isn't available. But, you could follow the general "One Touch Button" FAQ instructions and -- rather than using a button -- use iCal to set a daily alarm to run the little script driver. That would 'fire' on wake, since iCal 'remembers' alarms.

But if the Mac was off for, say, a few days, you might end up with a few backups 'stacked up'.

loosegroove
01-25-2009, 02:39 PM
It's not really a case we're designed to handle, Bronson: we consciously skip copies that occur when the Mac isn't available. But, you could follow the general "One Touch Button" FAQ instructions and -- rather than using a button -- use iCal to set a daily alarm to run the little script driver. That would 'fire' on wake, since iCal 'remembers' alarms.

But if the Mac was off for, say, a few days, you might end up with a few backups 'stacked up'.

Thanks Dave. This may be exactly what I want.

--
Bronson

fishmonkey
01-27-2009, 07:17 AM
Thanks Dave. This may be exactly what I want.

--
Bronson

can't you use the Schedule options in the Energy Saver prefs to wake the MB before the scheduled clone and then put it back to sleep again later?

dnanian
01-27-2009, 12:17 PM
I don't believe MacBooks will wake when the lid is down.

swivet
01-29-2009, 09:00 PM
Hello.

...the problem is that she closes the lid during the night and any time she's not using it...

There might be good reasons for this -- but another possible approach is to re-engineer the lid-closing habit.

On AC power, with Energy Saver set to turn off the display's backlight but not sleep the entire Mac, there's not much cost involved with that.

The MacBook will even carry on as normal with the lid an inch away from completely shut.

/swv

fishmonkey
01-29-2009, 09:23 PM
I don't believe MacBooks will wake when the lid is down.

i thought they were the same as MacBook Pros in this regard?

the Energy Saver preferences Scheduler will definitely wake my MBP from sleep, with lid up or down...

fishmonkey
01-29-2009, 09:25 PM
There might be good reasons for this -- but another possible approach is to re-engineer the lid-closing habit.

On AC power, with Energy Saver set to turn off the display's backlight but not sleep the entire Mac, there's not much cost involved with that.

The MacBook will even carry on as normal with the lid an inch away from completely shut.

/swv

the Scheduler in the Energy Saver prefs will definitely wake the MB from sleep with the lid up, and unless the MB is different in this regard to the MBP (which i don't think it is), it will also work with the lid down...

dnanian
01-29-2009, 09:26 PM
It's a bit weird for it to do that, but I'm not sure I'd recommend running a laptop with the lid down. They rely on the upper surface to do quite a bit of cooling...

swivet
01-29-2009, 09:43 PM
They rely on the upper surface to do quite a bit of cooling...

CPU humming, disk churning, display burning, fan roaring... lid shut tight. I am scared of this.

/swv

fishmonkey
01-29-2009, 09:46 PM
i personally don't run mine with the lid down, but it is very common and they are designed to do that (the Apple site tells you how)...

some people prefer to run with just an external display of some kind and the lid closed...

TMay
02-01-2009, 03:51 AM
fishmonkey

Since six months of the year, this is my normal operating mode, what you say needs some clarification. Dave is basically correct, in that the portables will NOT wake from sleep with the lid closed, regardless of energy saver or other pref settings, if no external monitor is connected.

I will also say that if you do have an external monitor connected, like I do, I think it's better to run the machine with the lid open. There are options to allow the (laptop) screen to remain dark in that situation.

But to the OP's problem, he does not state if his wife's machine has an external monitor or not. I sort of doubt it, given her "lid closing" habit. Swivet's original idea, just darkening the screen while leaving the machine awake is probably the best. Note this can be done with the lid nearly closed, as he said. She would have to remember not to close the lid completely on night(s) when a backup is scheduled.

fishmonkey
02-01-2009, 04:36 AM
fishmonkey

Since six months of the year, this is my normal operating mode, what you say needs some clarification. Dave is basically correct, in that the portables will NOT wake from sleep with the lid closed, regardless of energy saver or other pref settings, if no external monitor is connected.

I will also say that if you do have an external monitor connected, like I do, I think it's better to run the machine with the lid open. There are options to allow the (laptop) screen to remain dark in that situation.

But to the OP's problem, he does not state if his wife's machine has an external monitor or not. I sort of doubt it, given her "lid closing" habit. Swivet's original idea, just darkening the screen while leaving the machine awake is probably the best. Note this can be done with the lid nearly closed, as he said. She would have to remember not to close the lid completely on night(s) when a backup is scheduled.

well, i just put my MBP to sleep, disconnected my external monitor, woke it up again, set the Scheduler, put it back to sleep and closed the lid, and guess what: the Scheduler woke it up....

there are numerous threads on the interwebs debating the pros and cons of running in "clamshell" mode... as i said i prefer not to, but many people have reported no problems with running their machine that way, and there are official Apple support docs covering clamshell mode...

my MBP has accidentally run in clamshell mode for many hours in a very hot room, without any problems... sure the fans were maxxed out, but the temperatures did not go above the normal range...

and it doesn't take long to run a single smart update in any case... and besides, you can also set the Scheduler to put the Mac back to sleep later...

i can understand the feeling that running with the lid closed is inferior to running with the lid open, but that doesn't mean that in reality it's the wrong thing to do...

TMay
02-01-2009, 08:51 PM
fishmonkey

Well, I know for a fact that none of the PPC powerbooks will work that way. I believe yours won't either, if you boot up without the monitor (external) connected. I could be wrong, as I am currently without my Intel MBP (a son has borrowed) so can't test, but do me a favor. Reboot your laptop without an external monitor connected, then try the sleep and Scheduler business and post what happens.

(Of course, stop and think about it, why would anybody use "clamshell" without an external monitor, hence with no monitor at all? The laptop makes kind of a limited dedicated server, but maybe while serving video to a TV?) Anyway, give it a try.

(BTW, I have always thought that when Apple and others referred to "clamshell" mode, they were NOT talking about with the lid closed, but with the lid open and dark. Machine does not look much like a "clamshell" when it's closed but of course, yes, it works fine [if hot, see below] that way.)

A final note about the heat, not for you but for others reading. I have owned, or my company has owned, I believe every size iteration of recent year's Powerbooks and Pros; no unibodies yet (we have never used any model ibook or Macbook.) I will state that "smaller is worser" in the heat department; the 15's run hotter than the 17's, the 12's run hotter than the 15's. I would be extemely reluctant to run these machines, especially the smaller ones, with lid closed for any extended length of time, particularly as the ambient around it increases (I am in South Florida.) I also don't see the need; if dust is the issue, the screen can be kept at at a 30, 45, whatever, degree angle.

P.S. What happens if you boot without the monitor, put it to sleep, then plug in the monitor I don't know, but I don't think that will subsequently wake either....but it might.

fishmonkey
02-01-2009, 09:11 PM
hey

at the top of my previous post you can see that i already did the test that you are talking about (scheduled wake up with no external monitor connected)...

um, you might want to run audio with the lid closed, or your backups, haha... also, i haven't tried it, but i wouldn't be surprised if the MB/MBP will wake for ethernet admin access in clamshell mode too...

i certainly wouldn't recommend clamshell mode for extended periods in a hot ambient environment, but in a more modest climate, or with air conditioning, from what i've read the heat doesn't seem to be an issue...

also, i think maybe you are maybe taking the heat issue a bit far... yes some laptops run hotter than others, but just because one machine runs hotter than another doesn't make it "worse"... there are acceptable operating temperature ranges, and as long as a machine is in the range, well, what's the problem?

and after all, going back to the OP, we are talking about a simple Smart Update onto an external drive, a relatively short and non-CPU intensive operation, no?

TMay
02-01-2009, 10:11 PM
hey

at the top of my previous post you can see that i already did the test that you are talking about (scheduled wake up with no external monitor connected)...

Well, no, you actually didn't, I don't think. I believe for that test you booted with monitor, slept the machine, and unplugged the monitor. The test I want is to BOOT the laptop with NO external monitor connected to it, then see how it behaves, still with no external monitor (since I believe that's how the OP is using the machine, and since I still do not think it will work that way.) An added test, as I noted, would be after doing the above THEN plug in the monitor (for the first time since boot) and see how the machine behaves.

after all, going back to the OP, we are talking about a simple Smart Update onto an external drive, a relatively short and non-CPU intensive operation, no?

Sure, and that's why I also endorsed him doing it.

fishmonkey
02-01-2009, 11:12 PM
Well, no, you actually didn't, I don't think. I believe for that test you booted with monitor, slept the machine, and unplugged the monitor. The test I want is to BOOT the laptop with NO external monitor connected to it, then see how it behaves, still with no external monitor (since I believe that's how the OP is using the machine, and since I still do not think it will work that way.) An added test, as I noted, would be after doing the above THEN plug in the monitor (for the first time since boot) and see how the machine behaves.


ok, i didn't think it would make any difference, but to be thorough i did the test as you asked... shutdown MBP, disconnected DVI, restart, etc... and yes the scheduler wakes the machine up with the lid fully closed...

i didn't do the the plug in the monitor bit, as i don't understand what that would add to anything, since the most common method of waking a MB/MBP (and at least later PowerBooks) with the lid closed is with a USB or Bluetooth mouse or keyboard... in fact, rather annoyingly, unplugging any USB device with the lid closed will wake the machine, which is usually what has happened when i accidentally end up with my machine running in clamshell mode...

although this is getting a bit ridiculous, i believe that a PowerBook G4 will work in the same way... have you tried the above test yourself? btw, it seems that you have to set the scheduler to a time greater than one full minute in advance of when the machine actually sleeps for this to work...

TMay
02-02-2009, 11:06 AM
monkey

Well, I hope not (God, I hate to be wrong. :mad:) Will test and report back; won't be 'til late tonight.)

TMay
02-03-2009, 08:59 PM
monkey

(Sorry delay; needed machine producing until just a bit ago.)

Well, our tests differ, apparently.

For me, with machine shut off, all peripherals except power adapter disconnected, did the following: booted; opened SysPref, set schedule for a wake in five or so minutes, slept machine, closed lid. When the set time arrived, I waited. Waited some more. Absolutely nothing happens. End of story (this is with no password set.)

If a password is set (my normal “boot or wake” mode) behavior is a little different. At the set time, the machine APPEARED to wake, or, rather, to try to. Following happens: sleep light goes off, disk spins up, machine briefly (5-10 secs.?) hits the disk, then nothing for approx. 15 seconds, then brief disk access again, disk spins down, sleep light comes back on. Obviously, in the password mode the machine is waiting for entry of the PW. But stop and think about it: with no external keyboard connected, there IS no way to enter one. Same end of story.

The machine WILL NOT wake in this configuration/mode. Replicated this twice more, just for drill. This has been my long-term experience with these machines.

Final test, run the same way, but with lid open during sleep, wake occurs on schedule and normally, as was expected. (Lid open wide enough to be beyond activating the lid sleep switch.)

BTW, and just FYI, this is on 1.5ghz 12" PPC G4al Powerbook booted and run under Tiger 10.4.11. Although I routinely run the machine under 10.5.6 Leopard, that is from an external Firewire and didn't want to muddy up with any peripherals, but I am quite sure Leopard is the same.

I am also quite sure that behavior on my Intel MBP is the same, but as I said I don't have access to it to test it right now It is 15" 2.2ghz core 2 duo.

End of report.

fishmonkey
02-08-2009, 07:48 PM
hey, well either it's a PPC thing, or a Tiger thing i guess...

my MBP 2.16GHz C2D, running 10.5.6, will wake under those conditions...

Jay Levitt
03-11-2009, 09:56 AM
the Scheduler in the Energy Saver prefs will definitely wake the MB from sleep with the lid up, and unless the MB is different in this regard to the MBP (which i don't think it is), it will also work with the lid down...

Can someone verify this? I have a mid-2007 17" MBP. It's sitting on my desk, on battery power. There's nothing plugged in (I can ping it on its Wi-Fi interface from my desktop.

It's 8:31 am. I set the Energy Saver to wake every day at 8:35am, and close the lid. The desktop ping stops seeing responses.

At 8:35: still no ping response! I wait a minute or so, but this doesn't change. In fact, when I open the lid, it's still not "awake" on Wi-Fi; that doesn't happen till about 30 seconds after I enter my password to unlock the machine.

fishmonkey
03-11-2009, 10:07 AM
At 8:35: still no ping response! I wait a minute or so, but this doesn't change. In fact, when I open the lid, it's still not "awake" on Wi-Fi; that doesn't happen till about 30 seconds after I enter my password to unlock the machine.

it may be that having the password protection on prevents your Mac from fully waking up...

TMay
03-14-2009, 03:46 AM
Jay

You have seen what my testing shows and what my opinion on this issue is. ;)