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jchiar
02-05-2008, 11:51 PM
Hi Dave,

You state 2 things.

1) The new version includes full Leopard support, including the ability to store a bootable backup side-by-side with a Time Machine backup on a single volume

2) ability to copy Time Machine archives to other drives for backup purposes or to move to a larger drive without losing history.

Could u explain how this is done? Didnt see anything in the manual or FAQ

dnanian
02-06-2008, 12:06 AM
No tricks: just use "Backup - all files" with "Smart Update" in the first case, and either "Smart Update" or "Erase, then copy" in the 2nd.

mac-10
02-06-2008, 12:10 AM
But if you do Smart Update to your existing Time Machine drive, won't it delete the Time Machine files because they don't currently exist on the source drive?

mac-10

tiborg
02-06-2008, 12:18 AM
I'm assuming SD is smart enough to recognize the TM folder and not get rid of it, but this means you'll need a disk large enough to hold both your SD backup and the whole TM history.

dnanian
02-06-2008, 12:21 AM
Not if you don't do "Erase, then copy". See the "What's going to happen?" section of the UI.

mac-10
02-06-2008, 12:56 AM
OK, with "Backup - all files" and "Smart Update Dest from Src" ,

the "What's going to happen" screen includes "Smart Update will copy an erase what's needed to make Dest identical to your selections from Src."

So, will it erase the existing "Backups.backupdb" directory and all its contents since it does not appear on Src?

Also, ACL's aren't mentioned anywhere in the User Guide.pdf. When do I want to turn on "Copy ACL's"?

mac-10

tiborg
02-06-2008, 01:46 AM
I think dnanian is referring to the paragraph above that in the GUI where it says: "The Time Machine backups on TimeMachineData will be preserved." TimeMachineData being the name of my TM disk.

dnanian
02-06-2008, 01:33 PM
tiborg is exactly right. ACLs are "Access Control Lists" and are a default part of Leopard. They should be on unless you have a good reason to turn them off.

mac-10
02-06-2008, 02:04 PM
I think dnanian is referring to the paragraph above that in the GUI where it says: "The Time Machine backups on TimeMachineData will be preserved." TimeMachineData being the name of my TM disk.

Yeah, I figured it out. It was I wasn't sure on the 1st backup to that drive, and chose copy newer, and to make sure my TM backups didn't match anything newer (or older) I changed the name of the parent directory. So SD! didn't recognize it as a TM drive, so no message. (Paranoid and paid to be that way! :D Security Consultant... )

I deleted the backup, renamed the dir back and reran the backup and it reported correctly. I'm not sure "name matching" is a good long term strategy, but if that simply how CoreBackup services handles it and you hand to native OSX sevices, it may be all you have at your disposal without breaking a lot fo other things, like SD! being compatible with core restore services.

All in all, still loving it!

mac-10

dnanian
02-06-2008, 05:00 PM
Whatever you do, do NOT rename the "Backups.backupdb" file. It'll mess up all sorts of things, including Time Machine itself.

Name matching is all we have: it's how Time Machine works.

mac-10
02-06-2008, 05:09 PM
Whatever you do, do NOT rename the "Backups.backupdb" file. It'll mess up all sorts of things, including Time Machine itself.

Name matching is all we have: it's how Time Machine works.

I renamed it back when I was done (I've been doing this "kompewtor stuph" for a while, :D like since before BRIEF was bought by Borland ;) ) and was afraid that name matching might be the only way...

mac-10

jchiar
02-06-2008, 11:17 PM
ok, all this talk got me more confused. I just want to clone my 250 gb to my 1tb external, and use the 1tb for timemachine.


I did a copy of my TImemachine drive 250gb to my 1tb drive using smart update.

If this correct? How do i then tell Time machine to us this one for my new timemachine destination?

Do i need to take the 250GB out of timemachines config?

dnanian
02-06-2008, 11:22 PM
Just select that drive as the current Time Machine drive in the TM preference pane.

lucy
02-06-2008, 11:41 PM
No tricks: just use "Backup - all files" with "Smart Update" in the first case, and either "Smart Update" or "Erase, then copy" in the 2nd.
Hello Dave: Thank you for all your work on updating SD. I have been waiting for it with great anticipation. I would appreciate it if you could be more detailed in explaining exactly how SD integrates and works alongside TimeMachine. I know that it probably seems very simple but in my mind it appears very complicated. Could you elaborate on this topic in more detail? Thank you

dnanian
02-06-2008, 11:56 PM
I'm not sure I understand what's very complicated, lucy: could you ask a more directed question?

lucy
02-06-2008, 11:58 PM
Hi Dave,

You state 2 things.

1) The new version includes full Leopard support, including the ability to store a bootable backup side-by-side with a Time Machine backup on a single volume

2) ability to copy Time Machine archives to other drives for backup purposes or to move to a larger drive without losing history.

Could u explain how this is done? Didnt see anything in the manual or FAQ
More about TM and SD. During Tiger times I used SD to back up my internal hard drive to another hard drive. Now that I am on Leopard ( on an Intel MacPro) I want to follow the same pattern and backup my hard drive with SD 2.5 . I use a separate external hard drive as my Time Machine destination. I do not want to mix my timemachine backup drive with my SD backup drive. Do I have to suspend the TimeMachine application while Super Duper is doing its backup? What happens if TimeMachine is doing its thing while SuperDuper is doing a backup of the hard drive at the same time? In essence, SuperDuper is going to be backing up a hard drive while that hard drive is engaged in running the TimeMachine application !! Will this interfere with the SD backup? Thanks,

dnanian
02-07-2008, 12:00 AM
No, you don't have to do anything different.

lucy
02-07-2008, 12:06 AM
No, you don't have to do anything different.
Ok Dave. Thank you. I will use it for the first time tonight.

bammi
02-07-2008, 02:01 AM
David,
Thanks for your efforts and persistence with SuperDuper 2.5/Leopard. I of course jumped on it as soon as i could.

I am trying to do a side by side bootable backup on a Time Machine volume. As you suggest in the forums, i choose to Backup All files using Smart Update from my boot volume (MacOSX) to my Time Machine Volume (BookBak).

However when i get to the what is going to happen screen: It does not indicate its going to preserve the Time Machine files/folders as you indicate in your post (and in that thread) on the forums. So i am reluctant to l hit "Copy Now"

Should the what will happen now screen say something about preserving Time Machine??

Here are the screen shots:

The Destination Volume looks like this: (you can see Backups.backupdb)




Here are the options that i choose in SuperDuper (2.5 (v84))



And here is what the Whats going to happen screen looks like




Notice no mention of the Time Machine going to be preserved.

On the forum, one of the users had mentioned that i should be seeing:

"I think dnanian is referring to the paragraph above that in the GUI where it says: "The Time Machine backups on TimeMachineData will be preserved." TimeMachineData being the name of my TM disk."

and i dont see it as you can see in the screen shot above.

please help!


cheers,
bammi AT memento-inc DOT com
________
uhwh (http://uhwh.com)

mac-10
02-07-2008, 03:24 AM
Well, your screen shots aren't showing for me, so I'll have to just speak from what I see on my drive.

The first paragraph on the What's going to happen? screen should say _something_ about Time Machine if it sees the TM directory for holding the TM backups. If it doesn't say ANYTHING about Time Machine, check that the directory on the Time Machine drive exists. I know that this might sound silly, but also check the About SuperDuper! screen to be sure that you have 2.5.

I found that it respects that directory, even if it wasn't created by Time Machine. My SD! backup drive now has a directory of that name (even though I don't use TM on it) to hold things that I want to be there no matter what SD! thinks about them in Smart Update or Copy New or Older...

mac-10

jchiar
02-07-2008, 07:39 AM
Just select that drive as the current Time Machine drive in the TM preference pane.

Thanks that did the trick!

bammi
02-07-2008, 08:37 AM
Thanks mac-10,

Sorry the screen shots did not show up here. Indeed my dest volume does have a Time Machine backup on it: But yet my "what is going to happen" screen does not say anything about Time Machine. I checked "About SupeDuper!" and indeed its says "Version 2.5 (v84)".

The top level ls -a -l listing of my destination drive (since screen shots didnt work) is below and you can see the presence of Backups.Backupdb

macbook [BookBak] %3 ls -al
total 24
drwxrwxr-x 11 bammi bammi 442 Jan 29 23:33 ./
drwxrwxrwt@ 6 root admin 204 Feb 7 00:00 ../
-r-------- 1 bammi bammi 16 Jan 28 23:21 .0017f229c25e
-rw-rw-r--@ 1 bammi bammi 6148 Jan 29 23:33 .DS_Store
drwx------ 3 bammi bammi 102 Jan 28 22:45 .Spotlight-V100/
d-wx-wx-wt 3 bammi bammi 102 Feb 5 21:16 .Trashes/
-rw-r--r-- 1 bammi bammi 0 Jan 28 22:45 .com.apple.timemachine.supported
drwx------ 67 bammi bammi 2278 Feb 7 00:15 .fseventsd/
drwxr-xr-x+ 3 root bammi 102 Jan 28 23:24 Backups.backupdb/
________
vapor genie vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/vapor-genie)

James
02-07-2008, 08:46 AM
bammi, you should upload your screenshots to ImageShack (http://imageshack.us/) and then copy and past the thumbnail forum link in your post here.

dnanian
02-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Bammi, I received your screen shots in support, and your What's going to happen? section does specifically say that Time Machine backups will be preserved. Look at the first paragraph. It's there...

bammi
02-07-2008, 10:39 PM
Thanks all, i dont know how i missed thst right on top. Like my dear mother would have said "Do you have eyes or buttons".

thanks all,
bammi
________
RXV450 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Aprilia_RXV450)

sstickeler
02-10-2008, 12:56 AM
Dave, any plans to update the User's Manual with details on how Super Duper integrates with TM? I think a lot of users ( me included ) are confused / concerned about this. I don't want to hose my TM machine drive accidentally and I would like to know what Super Duper is going to be doing to the drive.

TMay
02-10-2008, 03:40 AM
sstickeler

About the Manual, Dave has already said here two or three times in the last several days that they are well aware of the need for Manual revisions/supplements, and those are in the works, but the priority was/is a) first to get 2.5 out and now, 2) to service the service requests (look at this board's volume right now) and that the revisions would follow in due course.

About the TM issues you raise, again, if you will read existing Forum threads since release of 2.5, you will find four or five which pertain to S/D=TM interaction. Take a look; it's really pretty simple.

Basically, you have TM running onto a given volume/partition. You can either have S/D perform its backups onto the SAME volume/partition that TM is using, or you can use another volume for SD backups. That's really about it. The separate partitions will avoid the problem of S/D being run out of space by ever-growing TM data. (Nothing will avoid the problem of TM being run out of space by its own ever-growing data.)

(As a pretty damn funny sidelight, here is Apple Computer's suggestion for how to handle the problem of TM filling up your new $700 20 gazillabyte drive, from their Support website: "If you do run out of space, the best thing to do is to attach a new backup disk." Does Apple now own part of Seagate?)

I am sure the guys that have "collected" 3,500 old VCR tapes, several thousand DVD movies, complain that a 40gb drive in their iPod is inadequate, have four overflowing Tivos and a few thousand disks of downloaded "trial" software they have never looked at will now have entire library shelves full of used-once-and-archived precious TM backup hard drives. I love it and won't leave it, but ahhhh, America.

dnanian
02-10-2008, 10:52 AM
I've also posted a few FAQ items that discuss it, so take a look there.

sstickeler
02-11-2008, 01:41 AM
Thanks TMay for the explanation.

rbt
02-12-2008, 09:49 AM
So my question is what happens when a drive with both side-by-side fills up. I have a 150 gb external drive and my macbook has a 120 gb hard drive. Now that SD boots in Leopard I'm returning to that as my primary backup, but since there's extra space I might as well have TM back up a few things (I exclude system files, apps, music and a few other things so that it won't take as much space). I'm currently doing them side-by-side. Right now there's plenty of room because my Macbook's HD isn't full so the clone doesn't take as much space and because of the previously mentioned TM exclusions. But eventually both the clone and the TM files will probably fill up the drive. What will happen then? Would I be better off partitioning the drive to reserve enough space for the clone to be able to clone a full macbook HD? I suppose another approach is that by the time this happens I should be able to afford a second external to transfer the TM files to, but it might be nice to not have to shell out the money. I just wiped the drive to switch from TM back to SD, so it's no problem if I have to wipe it again to partition it.

dnanian
02-12-2008, 10:54 AM
As I've said elsewhere, it's preferred to partition the drive. If your drive fills up, you can either remove the SD! backup or copy the whole thing to a new, larger drive...