PDA

View Full Version : version for 10.5 almost out?


mckingsley
11-25-2007, 02:45 PM
The other day I saw an update for a preliminary 10.5 version. I did not get it downloaded but since have not seen it. I'm assuming it was pulled. Is there a test version we can try, or _hopefully_ is it going to be out soon?! Thanks

dnanian
11-25-2007, 03:06 PM
There has not been an update, no...

gryphonent
11-26-2007, 09:11 PM
It's now been a month without a decent update and I'm truly getting frustrated with this "we're ready when we're ready attitude." A backup is better than no backup... it's as simple as that. Mark the beta as Beta, Alpha... some simple incomplete backup is better than no backup.

dnanian
11-26-2007, 09:27 PM
I've been updating the blog, if you've looked there. But I'm not going to release a beta or alpha version to the public, sorry. If you need a backup, you have Time Machine... which does work, and is one of the main "reasons" people jumped on Leopard so quickly, no?

shavital
11-27-2007, 09:14 AM
If you need a backup, you have Time Machine... which does work, and is one of the main "reasons" people jumped on Leopard so quickly, no?

I don't consider Time Machine a substitute, even temporary, for SuperDuper!, because Time Machine does not create a bootable backup.

I am using CCC, that works under Leopard, and creates a bootable backup, but I'd like to continue to rely upon SuperDuper! when (if?) a Leopard compatible release is available.

IMO, of course.

justG
11-27-2007, 09:47 AM
I don't know how many more times and in how many more ways we can be told that we'll get a new build when it's ready. If I'm entrusting the integrity of my data to Shirt Pocket, if I'm going to run to them for support if a backup created by their software doesn't work when I'm in a bind, isn't it understandable that they will do whatever they can to ensure, to the best of their ability, that their software never doesn't work?

Those of us who bought Leopard when it was released have had it for a month now. Considering that developers who are members of ADC actually were only able to download the GM *after* we already had our shiny new boxes, and considering how much time a month actually is (not much, for coding and QA), and considering the importance of my data to me, I'm content to wait for SD! until it's ready. Those of us who aren't are welcome to look for other solutions, and that's fine. But how does it help to badger the developer to release something? Given the reports I've read about the integrity of CCC's clones and smart updates being called into question over time, it's clear enough to me that the time Shirt Pocket are investing into making SD! rock-solid is not time squandered.

We've had blog updates and have some indication of the snags that Shirt Pocket are encountering. I think it's been made pretty clear, at least to my satisfaction, that they're not sitting on their laurels and getting a laugh out of making us wait. I'm impatient too (my first post on these forums, embarrassingly enough, was to request an ETA), but I think that wondering "if" a Leopard update is coming, when we know it is, is kind of uncalled for.

I don't mean to cause anyone any offence, but as one who visits these forums daily (and therefore sees similar sentiments constantly articulated), I just think we should lay off 'em for a bit. If I thought we could speed development along by wielding a cattle prod, I'd be first in line to do so. =]

shavital
11-27-2007, 10:24 AM
Given the reports I've read about the integrity of CCC's clones and smart updates being called into question over time, it's clear enough to me that the time Shirt Pocket are investing into making SD! rock-solid is not time squandered.

We've had blog updates and have some indication of the snags that Shirt Pocket are encountering. I think it's been made pretty clear, at least to my satisfaction, that they're not sitting on their laurels and getting a laugh out of making us wait. I'm impatient too (my first post on these forums, embarrassingly enough, was to request an ETA), but I think that wondering "if" a Leopard update is coming, when we know it is, is kind of uncalled for.

I don't mean to cause anyone any offence, but as one who visits these forums daily (and therefore sees similar sentiments constantly articulated), I just think we should lay off 'em for a bit. If I thought we could speed development along by wielding a cattle prod, I'd be first in line to do so. =]

Before I subscribed to this forum, I have been in contact by e-mail with ShirtPocket, mentioned CCC, and expressed my total confidence in ShirtPocket, while waiting for the release of a SD Leopard compatible version.

I am not using CCC as a cattle prod, just mentioning that it has worked for me. I'll be more specific: it has worked for me when performing an erase and clone backup. I didn't try CCC's smart updates, because I know there are still questionable.

To the point: I'll stop wondering "if" an update is coming, when that update is released. . I never asked, and I am not asking for an ETA.

gryphonent
11-27-2007, 02:11 PM
To clarify: Time Machine is no replacement for SuperDuper, because it backs up every hour, is not customizable, and geared to the less-experienced user who tends to loose stuff. Having said that, I rely on SD for backup of my files once a week. I understand there are issues with Leopard, but reading from your blog these issues deal with... Time Machine. What I'd expect from a responsible developer is a working tool I can rely on, however, that tool doesn't have to be perfect in every sense featurewise. I'd be totally happy if SD would work without backing up Time Machine (don't use it anyway). At the moment though it doesn't work at all. And each day that passes without a backup is one day too much. Proper project management would have resulted in a Leopard compatible version immediately after release that does offer the basics and warn users that certain files won't be backed up or that a bootable backup cannot be created. I don't really need all the stuff ShirtPocket seems to work on at the moment according to the blog. I need a simple smart backup of my regular files!

Nuff said on that topic though. I'm testing SmartBackup as I write this and have also found an old license for SynchronizePro (which, funny enough I dumped for SD's ease of use some years ago). Both of which are fully compatible with Leopard.

dnanian
11-27-2007, 02:29 PM
The thing is, gryphonent, that "fully compatible" in this case, isn't true. Unless they handle these things, they're partially compatible. They seem to work for you now, but are you using tools that carefully compare all the files and metadata on both source and copy to check?

As I've said in the blog and here, it's not just Time Machine. Not. These are normal things that can be on normal drives.

It's like properly copying ACLs and EAs. A Tiger user might not notice that those things weren't being copied properly. A Leopard user might not either -- until it's too late, and data's been lost... just because a program today isn't using ACLs or EAs or hard linked folders (etc) doesn't mean it won't start using them tomorrow. Time Machine's just a good test case, because it's pretty over-the-top about this stuff.

MMM
11-27-2007, 04:21 PM
Just for the record Dave we fully appreciate your not releasing SuperDuper! until it is completely ready. I certainly hope that you will not rush its development just because some people are making a habit of complaining on this forum. The simple fact is that most likely there is not one single person on this forum that did not know ahead of time that SuperDuper! was not ready for 10.5, and would not be ready for 10.5 for some time, when they installed Leopard on their computer. SuperDuper for Tiger works flawlessly and no one held a gun to anyones head forcing them to upgrade to Leopard and abandon using SuperDuper!. You are correct that people are not being left out in the cold since TM does backup our data. Is it bootable? No, but the fact still remains that our data will be backed up and not get lost with TM. I am not suggesting that at this time you go on a vacation to Maui while everyone waits for a working version of SuperDuper for 10.5, but I am saying that I know we are not alone in appreciating that you and your beta testers are working very hard and doing the job right the first time, instead of rushing SuperDuper! and having to re-issue fixes for it later. Hopefully it won't be much longer until everyone can download SuperDuper! for 10.5. Another way to look at this is that SuperDuper! works so good that now a lot of people are spoiled and don't want to use anything else, so take their complaining as a compliment :p I think we all want the version for 10.5 to work just as well as the one for Tiger did, and that takes time to develop it. So THANKS for all of your hard work, for not charging us an arm and a leg for the product, and for not forcing anyone to re-pay for a "Leopard version" of SuperDuper!. Looking forward for the next great release of SuperDuper! :)

doogald
11-27-2007, 04:33 PM
I don't consider Time Machine a substitute, even temporary, for SuperDuper!, because Time Machine does not create a bootable backup.

You can boot the Leopard DVD and restore from Time Machine right from the install, though. It's not a bad substitute for now.

I, for one, am patiently waiting for SuperDuper. I'd rather have it right and reliable than learn that there are problems when I most need it. I keep checking for an update, but I trust that there are good reasons why it is not yet ready.

shavital
11-27-2007, 05:02 PM
You can boot the Leopard DVD and restore from Time Machine right from the install, though. It's not a bad substitute for now.
I, for one, am patiently waiting for SuperDuper. I'd rather have it right and reliable than learn that there are problems when I most need it. I keep checking for an update, but I trust that there are good reasons why it is not yet ready.

Thanks for the tip about booting into the Leopard DVD to restore from Time Machine.

My concern to have a bootable back up on a external HD relates to the possibility that the computer's HD goes belly up. That happened to me a few months ago, and I could run my laptop from the external FW HD, until I got a replacement HD, because I had a bootable backup.

I am also waiting for SD. On 11/18/07, I e-mailed David:"As a registered user of SuperDuper!, I really appreciate your concern, not to release a Leopard compatible version before you are through with checking and testing. Especially when Leopard seems to be, yet, in some kind of transition/waiting mode."

I have not changed my mind since then, and when I post here about SD, I'm not prodding or complaining, I am just letting off steam (worry, weary, and somehow wary too).

MasterRanger
11-27-2007, 06:34 PM
I've been updating the blog, if you've looked there. But I'm not going to release a beta or alpha version to the public, sorry. If you need a backup, you have Time Machine... which does work, and is one of the main "reasons" people jumped on Leopard so quickly, no?

Actually, no... Time Machine does NOT work. I've had Leopard freeze a dozen times since my format/install, leaving me wishing this thing had a Ctrl-Alt-Delete function. The only thing that brings it back is pulling the plug on the machine, or turning off the external Backup drive, then turning off TM (IF the system unlocks when the external is turned off).

Don't even get me started on backing up when I've shared the external drive to my MacBook Pro.

What support comes from Apple? "::crickets::" That's what.

dnanian
11-27-2007, 06:44 PM
Leopard freezing up sound like Leopard not working, MasterRanger...

rmf
11-27-2007, 07:16 PM
Absolutely AGREE with MMM. I have found Shirtpocket help to be very supportive and responsive over the years. Absolutely top notch. Also, Superduper! has been a great product for me and saved my bacon several times. I want a product that is tested and works solidly. I don't want to trust my data to a beta or something that isn't fully tested, or something that works for a while, but reveals serious flaws after a few uses like CCC. There is a solid alternative, less convenient, but it does work, use disk utility. Booting from install disk and restoring from time machine also works. So, keep up the good work guys. And to those who demand instant gratification, how about waiting to go to x.5 until the things you absolutely positively have to have are absolutely positively actually ready and solid? If you couldn't wait, well, there are consequences from that decision that you made. So ----- enough whining please.

timlance
11-27-2007, 07:53 PM
Leopard freezing up sound like Leopard not working, MasterRanger...
SO glad to see you have maintain your humor, special as it has always been.

danielp
11-27-2007, 07:57 PM
Given the reports I've read about the integrity of CCC's clones and smart updates being called into question over time...

You keep repeated this, what you've read. I've been using ccc for over a week now on 3 computers and had no trouble at all. How it's magically working I have no idea.

Is it as smooth, easy to use, and wonderful as superduper? No, which is why I come back here every day to see if I can start using what I paid for. Right now ccc is a much better alternative simply because (for me) it works. Right now superduper is the vette with no fuel and ccc is the pinto with a full tank. I hate using it, but it gets me to work.

Just for the record Dave we fully appreciate your not releasing SuperDuper! until it is completely ready. I certainly hope that you will not rush its development just because some people are making a habit of complaining on this forum.

Who is we? I love that you refer to anyone bringing up that we're now going into the second month of no superduper whiners. I'm sure that we could go 3 months without superduper and there would still be some users telling everyone to stop whining, be patient.

This isn't donation ware. It's a product I bought and this forum is part of the support. I'm not starting threads every day to complain. But if 2 weeks go buy and there's still no update I'll certainly be back to ask questions.

If you're fine with everything, if you're happy to get superduper whenever, makes no difference, good for you. That doesn't negate differing opinions.

lestere
11-27-2007, 08:57 PM
You keep repeated this, what you've read. I've been using ccc for over a week now on 3 computers and had no trouble at all. How it's magically working I have no idea.

Is it as smooth, easy to use, and wonderful as superduper? No, which is why I come back here every day to see if I can start using what I paid for. Right now ccc is a much better alternative simply because (for me) it works. Right now superduper is the vette with no fuel and ccc is the pinto with a full tank. I hate using it, but it gets me to work.



Who is we? I love that you refer to anyone bringing up that we're now going into the second month of no superduper whiners. I'm sure that we could go 3 months without superduper and there would still be some users telling everyone to stop whining, be patient.

This isn't donation ware. It's a product I bought and this forum is part of the support. I'm not starting threads every day to complain. But if 2 weeks go buy and there's still no update I'll certainly be back to ask questions.

If you're fine with everything, if you're happy to get superduper whenever, makes no difference, good for you. That doesn't negate differing opinions.

Sorry, but I just have to chime in here... danielp is absolutely right. Anyone that reads this forum knows that I have publicly praised Dave for providing timely support for his program... and I will continue to do so. However, Dave has stated on more than one occasion that we should not be "throwing rocks at each other", to coin a phrase, but throw those rocks at him... and according to him, he can take it. Bravo!

Well Dave, here comes a rock... it has been way too long since Leopard has been released and still no compatible SD version. CCC can do it, why can't you guys at ShirtPocket?

I'm using CCC now for my own safety, but I really don't like it all that much, and like everyone else, look forward to the Leopard compatible release of SD.

ShirtPocket, your customer base is frustrated... and with good reason!

Now, before you guys jump all over me like a tall dog, remember, opinions are like bellybuttons... everyone has one!

MasterRanger
11-27-2007, 09:50 PM
Leopard freezing up sound like Leopard not working, MasterRanger...

Funny :) and I'd be willing to agree (and downgrade to Tiger) if the freezes also happened after TM was turned off. So far, TM's on/off status is the only constant. It's all 5x5 as long as TM is off. :(

I dunno, I bought Macs so I wouldn't have to perform surgery & miracles on OSes and hardware like I do at work, so I'm just burning critical files to DVD each week till something easy and working comes along.

NightOne
11-27-2007, 10:23 PM
Who is we?


I agree with everything JustG said. There is your "We".


This isn't donation ware. It's a product I bought and this forum is part of the support. I'm not starting threads every day to complain.


You bought a "license" to use the software? How would you feel if there was an upgrade charge for SuperDuper?

Since you "bought" Tiger, did Apple give you Leopard for free or did you pay $129 like everyone else?


But if 2 weeks go buy and there's still no update I'll certainly be back to ask questions.


If you're fine with everything, if you're happy to get superduper whenever, makes no difference, good for you. That doesn't negate differing opinions.

The point that was being made was that the constant "needling" does not do anything to further the cause of Leopard Super Duper. In fact, it hinders it.

Dave, you should be giving the Nobel prize for patience after this ordeal. :D

dnanian
11-28-2007, 12:03 AM
Well, lestere, the reason that "they" could do it and we "couldn't" is the same reason that SD! copied all the metadata associated with a file while all the other tools didn't. (See this post (http://blog.plasticsfuture.org/2006/04/23/mac-backup-software-harmful/).) We're taking the time to make sure things are right with the Leopard that's out.

danielp
12-11-2007, 02:50 AM
I agree with everything JustG said. There is your "We".

That's great. Except others wouldn't be a part of 'we'. This is a really simple concept. Allow me to explain. 99 percent of the time we as users are alone in front of our computers. That means only 'I' makes sense. You can say we and be sure some people will agree with you. But that's silly. It also doesn't add weight to an opinion, although that is certainly it's purpose. Differing opinions are good. Seeing those that don't carry the opinion of the majority here being shouted down is disheartening.

You bought a "license" to use the software? How would you feel if there was an upgrade charge for SuperDuper?

You're asking the wrong person . I would gladly pay an upgrade charge. I would have paid the full price for superduper again if it was working with leopard 2 weeks ago. I find it ironic that the general consensus here is that backup software is too important to rush out the door, yet you assume I wouldn't pay to have a working superduper (and I'm sure I'm not the only one). You assumed wrong.

The point that was being made was that the constant "needling" does not do anything to further the cause of Leopard Super Duper. In fact, it hinders it.

Your point is BS. The last time I even commented on this board was almost two weeks ago. If superduper isn't out because a few people are complaining then they do have problems.

This isn't freeware. People chose to buy superduper and they have a right, within reason, to ask for updates and voice their concern regardless if they updated to leopard knowing superduper wasn't ready. My question to you would be how long would it take for superduper to not be working before you would dare raise a voice. We're going on 7 weeks. 2 months? 3 months?

On the bright side, since shirt-pocket is being super cautious in its release of superduper, unlike CCC which works already but has a few minor problems, I'm guessing it will work perfectly from day one. See, I'm looking at the bright side.

Jeffus
12-11-2007, 07:17 AM
Hi all, been reading this thread with interest and I have to come down and support Dave and his team. Nobody forced people to change to Leopard so early. I'm running Tiger 10.4.11 and as mentioned earlier in the thread SD works flawlessly with it. Please Dave stick to your guns and make sure the Leopard version is 100% solid. BTW will it work OK with Tiger still?

Jeffus.

dnanian
12-11-2007, 09:38 AM
Yes, it'll still work fine with Tiger.

FromageTheDog
12-11-2007, 09:24 PM
Glad to see someone else as eager for this update. danielp beware, the idiot masses are only minutes away from jumping all over you (like a "tall dog" :) ).

TMay
12-12-2007, 12:19 AM
Funny, Danielp says "we" don't exist, or at least, the concept of our existance is "silly," whereas CheeseDog says that we are the "tall dog masses." (Err, "idiot masses," to be exact.) Waiting to jump. Ruuufff!!!

FromageTheDog
12-12-2007, 12:37 AM
Right on cue! Good boy! :D

danielp
12-12-2007, 01:08 AM
Nobody forced people to change to Leopard so early.

If I had a dime for every time I heard this line I'd have 1.35. 2 months is early? Will 3 months be early? If you enjoy using tiger, good for you. I wouldn't go back. Every single program I use works on leopard, and I use a lot of programs, except one.

TMay
12-12-2007, 11:41 PM
danielp

I understand that use of CCC "over a week now on 3 computers" undoubtedly qualifies you as both a backup software and CCC guru, but what if those errors you later refer to as "a few minor problems" turn out not to be? (Not to be few, or minor, or perhaps neither.)

2stepbay
12-14-2007, 03:12 PM
I'm with you. I prefer to see a rock solid version of SD, than one having backup problems. As I wait for the Leopard version, I've been taking alternative steps to preserve essential files.

Looking forward to the new version.

danielp
12-14-2007, 03:46 PM
I understand that use of CCC "over a week now on 3 computers" undoubtedly qualifies you as both a backup software and CCC guru, but what if those errors you later refer to as "a few minor problems" turn out not to be? (Not to be few, or minor, or perhaps neither.)

Please tell me where I said I was a "backup software and ccc" guru. Honestly, I know you take your job of going from thread to thread defending shirtpocket very seriously, and for free, but please try and stick to what I actually said.

As for your question, I haven't had those errors. Others have. Regardless, your question is pointless. You're comparing a piece of software that 'might' have errors that are more serious to a piece of software that doesn't work at all.

I know. Superduper is making sure everything is perfect. Wouldn't help me if my HD crashed today.

jofallon
12-14-2007, 05:39 PM
I think with backup software I'd rather know something didn't work than use something that other people have reported errors on that I didn't see myself. The worst situation is thinking you have a good backup and finding out you don't really when your drive dies. Given persistent errors in things like syncing iCal and the address book to .Mac, and a few Leopard crashes, I'm not really sure I trust Time Machine. From my own experiences and looking at the Bombich user forums, I wouldn't necessarily say that CCC really does work better than the betas of SD; but CCC has been released anyway. You can backup documents, settings, and files a variety of ways to cover yourself if you don't rely on one product that turns out to be buggy.