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lucy
11-08-2007, 12:44 AM
Hello: Does anyone have any idea when SD will be ready for Leopard? I have chosen to wait on installing Leopard because I depend so much on SD for my backups that Leopoard is not worth the risk. But since I manage 5 computers I am really anxious to enjoy some of Leopards' new network capabilities; thus, my question about when the upgraded SD is expected. If Dave or anyone has any idea, please share it. Thanks

dnanian
11-08-2007, 12:53 AM
We're working on it -- testing and tweaking. We want it to be right, so we can't rush it out the door...

bernietheone
11-08-2007, 04:52 AM
We're working on it -- testing and tweaking. We want it to be right, so we can't rush it out the door...

i too waiting in line for the update, but i absolutely wish it to be safe. I have other backup-utils who claim they were "Leopard-Ready", if you look at there forums, they're not....

I would even recommend to dnanian to wait for the pending release of 10.5.1 to make sure that it will REALLY work and that we can be sure that our backups are what they need to be: Something we can blindly depend on...

I tried Leo's Time-Machine, but it's not the way i work, so i will set the switch to "OFF" the moment i can get a Leo-compatible SD-Version and get back "in-control" and do backups the way i want it to be, not the way apple wants it for me...

As long as there is no working SD-Version Time Machine is a good interim-solution, no need to hurry...

Thanks!

Bernie

Stevamundo
11-08-2007, 03:06 PM
Dave, can you PLEASE at least tell us if you're making good progress on a Leopard version on SD?

I'm VERY EXCITED of getting SD for Leopard!!!!!!

rincewind
11-08-2007, 03:59 PM
I agree with getting it right. SuperDuper has just saved me with my attempts at Leopard installation.

I did a complete back-up of my pre-Leopard main drive. Then I installed Leopard and had many of the problems that others have reported -- blue screens, applications freeze, etc -- basically, a PC experience on the Mac. I worked on it for a while but it never became stable.

So I just booted to my back-up drive, copied that version back over my main drive, and now I'm back up and happily running a stable 10.4.x OS. I'm waiting for a stable Leopard version before I try that again.

SuperDuper saved me a lot of pain and agony -- and it was fairly simple. I'm back to enjoying my Mac again. Others can suffer with the early Leopard bugs, I'll wait it out.

jofallon
11-08-2007, 05:05 PM
The minor little points that you guys seem to be taking so long to get right are the things that make restores from an SD backup work so well. In theory, you can boot from the Leopard DVD and restore from a TimeMachine backup. But with all the weird little problems with Leopard, who'd feel all that safe relying on TimeMachine? I'm using Carbon Copy Cloner for now, and it does boot the new cloned drive all right, but I wonder if there'll be some odd directory permission issue popping up when I use it for a while.

I'd just as soon wait for SD to get done right.

dnanian
11-08-2007, 05:44 PM
We're making good progress, Steve & everyone. But, as I've said (over and over and over), we're taking our time to make sure it's right. It's something we've always done -- it's one of the reasons why you like us.

I'm sorry that we didn't have the final Leopard build weeks early so we could finish things up before it came out, but we didn't -- we're going as fast as we can safely go. Patience!

Stevamundo
11-08-2007, 06:55 PM
We're making good progress, Steve & everyone. But, as I've said (over and over and over), we're taking our time to make sure it's right. It's something we've always done -- it's one of the reasons why you like us.

I'm sorry that we didn't have the final Leopard build weeks early so we could finish things up before it came out, but we didn't -- we're going as fast as we can safely go. Patience!

That's good news! Thank you Dave.

It's not your fault if Apple didn't release their GM build of Leopard to their developers before they released it to the public.

nsaumya
11-08-2007, 06:59 PM
We're making good progress, Steve & everyone. But, as I've said (over and over and over), we're taking our time to make sure it's right. It's something we've always done -- it's one of the reasons why you like us.

I'm sorry that we didn't have the final Leopard build weeks early so we could finish things up before it came out, but we didn't -- we're going as fast as we can safely go. Patience!
I've installed Leopard AND backed up (over my old backup) using SD! and just now discovered that it isn't considered ready. Help!! What should I do in the meantime until SD! is ready?

Stevamundo
11-08-2007, 07:14 PM
Well, did it work?

nsaumya
11-08-2007, 07:30 PM
It made a copy, and data files seem fine, but there are some strange added folder aliases: "var," "tmp," "etc"
Needless to say I'm not going to risk "testing" it to see if it makes a good bootable copy.

stokessd
11-08-2007, 07:43 PM
those aren't strange directories, those are standard unix directories. Nothing to be scared of. etc is your friend, it's where all your settings live. tmp is just temp junk and can be ignored. var is where your logs and other transient stuff lives.

Sheldon

nsaumya
11-08-2007, 07:46 PM
Thanks! That's reassuring. I guess I'll still be slightly holding my breath until the update of SD is ready (but it is sure worth waiting for!)

BarryB
11-08-2007, 10:55 PM
From my recent experience with the Spotty Cat IMO the question should be: When will Leopard be ready for SD? :)
Thanks to the life-saver, I am now back in Tiger and purring quite happily myself. All the machines on my LAN can now print - again.
Let's wait, friends, just wait. For Leopard to be ready for prime time, for HP et al. to get the drivers out, and for SD! to take its own sweet time.
Thanks to all, Dave, for a restore that went without a glitch or hiccup - and was very fast!

Lyle
11-08-2007, 11:07 PM
Let's place bets on how long it will take for someone else to ignore the numerous existing threads discussing this question and start a new "When will SuperDuper! be ready for Leopard?" thread.

I'm going to say it will be tomorrow morning, around 10:30 a.m.

Stevamundo
11-09-2007, 12:46 AM
From my recent experience with the Spotty Cat IMO the question should be: When will Leopard be ready for SD? :)
Thanks to the life-saver, I am now back in Tiger and purring quite happily myself. All the machines on my LAN can now print - again.
Let's wait, friends, just wait. For Leopard to be ready for prime time, for HP et al. to get the drivers out, and for SD! to take its own sweet time.
Thanks to all, Dave, for a restore that went without a glitch or hiccup - and was very fast!

What? I have Leopard and a HP printer and I can print just fine. I Love Leopard!

The only thing wrong now, is some important programs like SD still are incompatible with Leopard. HOWEVER that's only for the time being. :)

stokessd
11-09-2007, 02:21 PM
I've also got a pair of HP laser printers and they work perfectly with Leopard. They are both postscript (as all printers should be) so the printer driver doesn't do any heavy lifting.


Sheldon

fergus
11-09-2007, 07:33 PM
I'm also glad the time is being taken - I'd much rather wait than have a quick release with bugs being mopped up later... especially with backup software. Props to you Dave! :)

bdwilson
11-09-2007, 08:49 PM
Well, I got tired of waiting. I successfully used the newest carbon copy cloner to image my new 250gb drive for my macbook. Newest CCC has scheduling & supports updating the image with only things that have changed. It's at least a good alternative until SD gets updated. I'm typing this on my newly imaged drive and haven't had any issues in a day or so. Keeping the old drive around just in case :)

hcdavis3
11-12-2007, 06:18 PM
We're working on it -- testing and tweaking. We want it to be right, so we can't rush it out the door...

Hi Dave,

Here's what I have done. I partitioned my internal Hard Drive into 2, one for 10.4.10 and one for 10.5. I have backed up my 10.4.10 partition to one of 3 partitions on my external drive. The three are for, one 10.4.10, one for 10.5 (I'm backing that up as I write this from my MacBook) and one for the MacBook itself. The 1st time I backed up Leopard it (erase and copy) it got 3/4s of the way through and SD crashed. So trying again. Will report back if this backup goes OK. There is an option to back up ACS files when Leopard is running SD. What are those?

Just upgrading to Leopard was a nightmare and, as I now know, not the way to go. I backed up 10.4.10 to one partition after erasing it and now Leopard seems to have calmed down a bit after doing a clean install, with only a few sporadic crashes.

Booting Leopard from a SD bootable copy via USB (yeah I have another external drive) doesn't work.

Update. SD just crashed at about the same time as before. I'll try doing an SD copy of Leopard to my Leopard backup partition while running 10.4.10 and let you know how that goes.

Can't wait for SD Leopard. Keep us posted.

Regards,

Carter

dnanian
11-12-2007, 06:23 PM
You can try turning off the "ACL Copy" option in Advanced preferences, Carter -- but, it's not compatible, so this kind of thing is inevitable.

KevinBBG
11-12-2007, 09:57 PM
We're working on it -- testing and tweaking. We want it to be right, so we can't rush it out the door...

I for one, certainly want to wait for it to be right, I've depended on SuperDuper! for a couple of years now and intend to for quite some.

We can use it now to back up Tiger then install Leopard and have our safety net. I did this very thing when I upgraded to Tiger, ran into some problems but was on deadlines and could not take the time to figure it out. So I booted on my Panther clone and kept working for a few days until I could get back to deal with Tiger.

With Time Machine you are supposed to be able to limit what you back up. I intend to still make Leopard clones with SD! like I always have and have Time Machine back up only my files. It makes sense to have a weeks worth of changes on a file and to be able to go back and restore from any point in that week. But there is no need to do that for the system. This should keep Time Machine nice and trim so it doesn't take too long or use up too much disk space.

Apple really put in Time Machine because the majority of Mac users do not back up at all so they wanted to make it easy and painless. But for those of us who do back up TM would just be one more resource to increase our depth of safety.


Kevin
http://dailybbg.blogspot.com/

danielp
11-14-2007, 04:07 AM
We're making good progress, Steve & everyone. But, as I've said (over and over and over), we're taking our time to make sure it's right. It's something we've always done -- it's one of the reasons why you like us.

But the main reason I like you is because superduper! backs up my mac, or at least it use to.

I love superduper, don't get me wrong. I appreciate your hard work. But it's going on 3 weeks now and I haven't been able to back up my mac. I hope an update is coming soon. Yes, I want it done right, but the amount of time that is acceptable to wait is coming to an end in my opinion.

I don't want to use time machine, or another backup application. I chose superduper!, and paid money for superduper! because that's the application I wanted to use. In all due respect, I hope I get to use it again very soon.

visch1
11-14-2007, 04:56 AM
"Yes, I want it done right, but the amount of time that is acceptable to wait is coming to an end in my opinion."

The word "but" negates the previously stated. Lets see if we can thing of something that was rushed to market not ready. VISTA, LEOPA..:rolleyes:

danielp
11-14-2007, 05:07 AM
The word "but" negates the previously stated. Lets see if we can thing of something that was rushed to market not ready. VISTA, LEOPA..:rolleyes:

No it doesn't. In fact, I'd say the opposite. The fact that it has to be done right doesn't mean that any time frame is acceptable. There's a time limit (a month? 2 months?) when "got to do it right" doesn't cut it. I'm simply saying that in my opinion that time is coming. I hope to see it out in the next week. If it's going to be much longer I feel we should be told as much.

(and leopard has been wonderfully perfect for me, so maybe they rushed yours and not mine)

dnanian
11-14-2007, 10:30 AM
Sorry, Daniel. Going as quickly as we can. It's not like we're sitting on our hands, with our heads in troughs of ice cream.

jconnor
11-14-2007, 10:45 AM
Sorry, Daniel. Going as quickly as we can. It's not like we're sitting on our hands, with our heads in troughs of ice cream.

Perhaps part of the problem is that the Shirt Pocket home page still suggests that you still don't have the official release of Leopard!

I too am waiting patiently, but some updates on the Shirt Pocket/Super Duper home page as to progress might prevent people asking the same questions over and over (and over)!

For what it's worth, the folks at Parallels haven't updated their software either!

dnanian
11-14-2007, 10:47 AM
Working on a status update, trying to find time. Basically, things are going well...

yle
11-14-2007, 11:21 AM
Working on a status update, trying to find time. Basically, things are going well...

Glad to hear things are going well. Can you possibly give a general timeframe for completion (i.e. days? weeks? etc.)?

Thanks for a great product!

dnanian
11-14-2007, 11:27 AM
Certainly not days. Working as fast as we can.

coumerelli
11-14-2007, 11:33 AM
Fast. Good. Cheap.

Pick 2.

You can't have all 3.

kms_md
11-14-2007, 01:15 PM
For what it's worth, the folks at Parallels haven't updated their software either!

this is not exactly true as (1) there is a stable beta which is available for use (build 5540) and (2) the problem mounting windows volumes in OS X can be solved be installing the latest version of macfuse.

kms

justG
11-14-2007, 01:20 PM
<off-topic>I just wanted to say that troughs of ice cream sound lovely. That is all.</off-topic>

jofallon
11-14-2007, 01:32 PM
Given the profound changes in Leopard, it's not surprising it's taking a while. I'm on my third install of Leopard. I'm not at all sure that Time Machine works all that well; when it was doing a backup of 6.5 gigs the other day (it picked up on a flash drive I had stuck in there), I trying stopping it. On the next reboot, there was a message that 6000+ orphaned files had been deleted; and I've had periodic disk corruption with TM running, on a 3 month old Mini that was stable with Tiger. Carbon Copy Cloner does produce a bootable clone, slowly; but won't update an existing clone and may or may not actually get everything copied with all the metadata right.

There are not a lot of good alternatives to SuperDuper, which suggests that the difficulties with Leopard are substantial.

danielp
11-14-2007, 01:37 PM
Sorry, Daniel. Going as quickly as we can. It's not like we're sitting on our hands, with our heads in troughs of ice cream.

Well, that wasn't the tone of my comment at all of course, but I'm happy with the impending update mentioned. Looking forward to it.

jconnor
11-14-2007, 02:58 PM
this is not exactly true as (1) there is a stable beta which is available for use (build 5540) and (2) the problem mounting windows volumes in OS X can be solved be installing the latest version of macfuse.

kms

True. What I should have said is that they haven't released a production version that is Leopard compatible.

bdwilson
11-14-2007, 05:24 PM
Given the profound changes in Leopard, it's not surprising it's taking a while. I'm on my third install of Leopard. I'm not at all sure that Time Machine works all that well; when it was doing a backup of 6.5 gigs the other day (it picked up on a flash drive I had stuck in there), I trying stopping it. On the next reboot, there was a message that 6000+ orphaned files had been deleted; and I've had periodic disk corruption with TM running, on a 3 month old Mini that was stable with Tiger. Carbon Copy Cloner does produce a bootable clone, slowly; but won't update an existing clone and may or may not actually get everything copied with all the metadata right.

There are not a lot of good alternatives to SuperDuper, which suggests that the difficulties with Leopard are substantial.

CCC can do smart backups... this has been discussed and is mentioned in the CCC docs: http://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15428&postcount=6

justflybob
11-14-2007, 05:57 PM
As I reported in another thread, I was faced with this same situation after an early attempt to upgrade to Leopard. I even tried to do a clean install and migrate the data from a "Leopardized" SD backup. The data was fine, but the permissions, etc. were rather confused. The end result was not very stable.

I mention this only as a "be careful" kind of comment, not to lay any blame on SD. They have never claimed the current version was Leopard compatible. Also, I had an entirely different problem going on that made the install less than desirable. My Leopard install disc had flaws, and not ones that were picked up by the integrity screen at the start of the installation process.

So, for the short term, I am employing Time Machine to handle the day to day changes. I will use both Time Machine and SD, once the folks here have cleared it for takeoff.

mikej
11-15-2007, 12:25 PM
Hi Lucy, and all others wondering "when and what while we wait"...
I need daily reliable backups, and while I use Time Machine, I need multiple solutions. So, for $10 I downloaded a copy of Carbon Copy Cloner. For whatever reasons, this app is already Leopard friendly... use it right now! CCC worked flawlessly... so while I have been a huge fan of SuperDuper, I would recommend to anyone concerned about bootable clone backups while we wait in semidarkness for SuperDuper to be updated, just use CCC!

NightOne
11-15-2007, 05:59 PM
I love superduper, don't get me wrong. I appreciate your hard work. But it's going on 3 weeks now and I haven't been able to back up my mac. I hope an update is coming soon. Yes, I want it done right, but the amount of time that is acceptable to wait is coming to an end in my opinion.

I don't want to use time machine, or another backup application. I chose superduper!, and paid money for superduper! because that's the application I wanted to use. In all due respect, I hope I get to use it again very soon.

And you were forced to upgraded to Leopard at gunpoint by who??? :)

danielp
11-15-2007, 10:03 PM
And you were forced to upgraded to Leopard at gunpoint by who??? :)

What does that have to do with anything?

I'm not getting into a war of words with other users. You're happy? Great. I'm not, and as someone that paid for superduper I can express that opinion. They said they would update the status on superduper. I said I was happy with that. I don't think that's unreasonable. It matters not to me if you agree.

Although, still waiting...

JoBoy
11-16-2007, 12:59 AM
Hi Lucy, and all others wondering "when and what while we wait"...
I need daily reliable backups, and while I use Time Machine, I need multiple solutions. So, for $10 I downloaded a copy of Carbon Copy Cloner. For whatever reasons, this app is already Leopard friendly... use it right now! CCC worked flawlessly... so while I have been a huge fan of SuperDuper, I would recommend to anyone concerned about bootable clone backups while we wait in semidarkness for SuperDuper to be updated, just use CCC!
Another alternative is to enjoy 10.4.11 while waiting for Apple to remove the land mines in 10.5.X. I've had a great day with 10.4.11 and its markedly improved Safari. While I sleep, my Mac starts up in the middle of the night to enable SD to continue to work flawlessly to update the three extra copies of the system, apps, and data, after which the Mac shuts down for the rest of the night. I can wait for an SD update to be well-done while Apple works to improve what I think is an unpolished offering in 10.5.X.

ksrhee
11-16-2007, 01:47 AM
Another alternative is to enjoy 10.4.11 while waiting for Apple to remove the land mines in 10.5.X. I've had a great day with 10.4.11 and its markedly improved Safari. While I sleep, my Mac starts up in the middle of the night to enable SD to continue to work flawlessly to update the three extra copies of the system, apps, and data, after which the Mac shuts down for the rest of the night. I can wait for an SD update to be well-done while Apple works to improve what I think is an unpolished offering in 10.5.X.

I beg to differ, and I've been enjoying Leopard since its release 10/26, and I would not go back to Tiger even if someone paid me to downgrade. The features in Leopard make me not only more productive but have saved me a few times in the last few weeks (Time Machine is great BTW). So far, everything I have works fine except a few programs including of course, SuperDuper, and I have more than 100 applications installed in my MacBook Pro.

Apple has just release the update to Leopard to address a few major issues as well.

So, those of you who are on the fence, I hate to say it, but you don't know what you've been missing.

JoBoy
11-16-2007, 02:29 AM
I suffered a catastrophic crash caused by my previous backup software. SD was recommended to me by an expert in the field and I have found it to be an extremely reliable application that is well thought out and easy to use. Given the trauma of my prior experience, I'm willing to wait for Leopard while SD gets ready for prime time. The security blanket I feel from my good experience here and the ease with which I can keep three separate copies in three different forms comprise a user experience that is hard to beat in my opinion. I'm willing to wait a reasonable time, especially after reading MacFixit's articles on Leopard the last couple of weeks.

NightOne
11-16-2007, 02:50 AM
What does that have to do with anything?

I'm not getting into a war of words with other users. You're happy? Great. I'm not, and as someone that paid for superduper I can express that opinion. They said they would update the status on superduper. I said I was happy with that. I don't think that's unreasonable. It matters not to me if you agree.

Although, still waiting...

What it means is that you could still be using SuperDuper on Tiger. :)

You are entitled to your opinion. Absolutely. However, when you use words like "acceptable" and imply entitlement, you invite commentary. :D

danielp
11-16-2007, 04:08 AM
You are entitled to your opinion. Absolutely. However, when you use words like "acceptable" and imply entitlement, you invite commentary. :D

I would respond better if anything you said made sense to me. Nothing is wrong with the word acceptable and there is no entitlement in my comments (your accusation is bizarre). I'm one customer giving my opinion. If you want to play PR person for shirt pocket, fine. But telling a customer 3 weeks after a new OS has come out that they shouldn't have upgraded is laughable.

NightOne
11-16-2007, 06:16 AM
But telling a customer 3 weeks after a new OS has come out that they shouldn't have upgraded is laughable.

I *am* a Shirt Pocket customer so I speak to you as a fellow user.

See page 2:

http://www.adobe.com/support/products/pdfs/leopardsupport.pdf

I'm done now. :)

Best wishes

n89b
11-16-2007, 07:22 AM
I've been patient so far, but as a paying customer I'm starting to feel left in the dark here. I know you are testing the software thouroughly to make sure it will work but the only information on progress so far is that progress is happening. Some kind of news, anything, would be good. Even documenting some of the issues you've had in getting it to work so we can see why it's taking so long. I don't want to use other software but I may have to try alternatives as I'm sure many of your other customers are doing, as I need the features of superduper.

As a sidenote, because superduper isn't working I have leopard stuck on an external drive. I can't copy the volume to the internal using disk util as the internal volume is slightly smaller (but the external volume is not full). Can anyone recommend another fail-safe way of copying the volume across? Thanks.

brich
11-16-2007, 08:16 AM
I tested Carbon Copy Cloner on my Macs last night, and successfully created bootable Leopard clones to external FW on both; so, there is a seemingly viable alternative right now. That said, I'm a loyal SD customer, and look forward to the polished new version of SD that Dave N will release when it's fully baked.

dnanian
11-16-2007, 11:05 AM
Hey, everyone? Stop attacking each other. If you're frustrated and need a punching bag, feel free to punch me, OK?

I really don't want to have to start moderating comments -- I've never deleted anything but spam on this forum, even when people start plugging other products, etc. So -- please -- treat each other with respect.

You're welcome to express your frustration -- I'm frustrated too -- but direct that frustration at me.

Thanks.

dnanian
11-16-2007, 11:08 AM
One of the big challenges, by way of updating, is ensuring we can not just copy a Leopard install -- which is relatively easy -- but can also copy (and Smart Update) a Time Machine volume without doing a "low-level" copy... and also handle the types of file layouts Time Machine employs when used by other applications, should they choose to.

Lyle
11-16-2007, 11:52 AM
One of the big challenges, by way of updating, is ensuring we can not just copy a Leopard install -- which is relatively easy -- but can also copy (and Smart Update) a Time Machine volume without doing a "low-level" copy... and also handle the types of file layouts Time Machine employs when used by other applications, should they choose to.Just so I understand: Are you saying that you feel pretty comfortable with SuperDuper's behavior on Leopard when it's backing up non-TM volumes? That your focus at this point is getting it working for backing up TM volumes properly?

The reason I ask is that if you have a version of SuperDuper! that works well for the former case, I'd be interested in getting that ASAP, even if it didn't work on TM volumes. If I do end up using TM, I'm planning to use it with an external drive anyways, one that I didn't intend to clone via SuperDuper!.

If I have completely misunderstand the point you were trying to make, kindly ignore my request. ;)

dnanian
11-16-2007, 12:05 PM
Yes, but it's unlikely we'd release a "public beta" of SD! with only that capability. We just haven't completed all our tests, and the changes necessary for full support affect the "cloner", which is critical for all operations.

rmiller501
11-16-2007, 12:14 PM
I agree with Lyle, why would you want to make a backup of a backup ? I have no need to clone Time Machine. I sure hope that's not what we are waiting on. Just give me my old SD with Leopard compatibility.

Dick

dnanian
11-16-2007, 12:16 PM
Let me emphasize again: it's not just that Time Machine uses these new capabilities. Any application can do so. Properly handling these cases is important for proper copying.

Diazruanova
11-16-2007, 02:40 PM
Wow, I never thought there will be such a polemic discussion :confused:

As I see it, those who updated early to Leopard, should have taken into consideration that there are still, important apps that are NOT fully working, reliable enough or plainly useless for Leopard yet.
This is my case, I can NOT upgrade because MOTU's Digital Performer Audio recording application (vital for my line of work) is not yet fully compatible with Leopard, thus turning my anxious desire to update, into an exercise on patience, which btw, I consider some of us should practice a little.

Now, if some of the people here already took the plunge, well, you'll have to practice patience want it or not! that is only IF you need to use SD with the confidence that WE ALL are used to. I do not doubt that CCC is a great utility, but IMO SD is superior and just for that single reason I personally would wait the time it takes.

Very few people in the Software Industry, gets as deep into servicing his/her customers as Dave does. I am sure that most of us recognize this, and if it was only for the service provided here by Dave, I would wait even longer.

This also reminds me of a traffic jam on which some guys start to get desperate and sound the car's horn without noticing that the street is being repaired a few meters ahead, just to prevent cars from damaging.
Nothing is achieved by the horn sounding, because that is not going to make the repair process any faster ;)

Kosjer D
11-16-2007, 02:49 PM
Wow, I never thought there will be such a polemic discussion :confused:

As I see it, those who updated early to Leopard, should have taken into consideration that there are still, important apps that are NOT fully working, reliable enough or plainly useless for Leopard yet.
This is my case, I can NOT upgrade because MOTU's Digital Performer Audio recording application (vital for my line of work) is not yet fully compatible with Leopard, thus turning my anxious desire to update, into an exercise on patience, which btw, I consider some of us should practice a little.

Now, if some of the people here already took the plunge, well, you'll have to practice patience want it or not! that is only IF you need to use SD with the confidence that WE ALL are used to. I do not doubt that CCC is a great utility, but IMO SD is superior and just for that single reason I personally would wait the time it takes.

Very few people in the Software Industry, gets as deep into servicing his/her customers as Dave does. I am sure that most of us recognize this, and if it was only for the service provided here by Dave, I would wait even longer.

This also reminds me of a traffic jam on which some guys start to get desperate and sound the car's horn without noticing that the street is being repaired a few meters ahead, just to prevent cars from damaging.
Nothing is achieved by the horn sounding, because that is not going to make the repair process any faster ;)

finally some wise and calm words in here :) i can second this :) keep up with the good work dave and release when things are done and run solid :)

NightOne
11-16-2007, 03:08 PM
Wow, I never thought there will be such a polemic discussion :confused:

As I see it, those who updated early to Leopard, should have taken into consideration that there are still, important apps that are NOT fully working, reliable enough or plainly useless for Leopard yet.
This is my case, I can NOT upgrade because MOTU's Digital Performer Audio recording application (vital for my line of work) is not yet fully compatible with Leopard, thus turning my anxious desire to update, into an exercise on patience, which btw, I consider some of us should practice a little.

Now, if some of the people here already took the plunge, well, you'll have to practice patience want it or not! that is only IF you need to use SD with the confidence that WE ALL are used to. I do not doubt that CCC is a great utility, but IMO SD is superior and just for that single reason I personally would wait the time it takes.

Very few people in the Software Industry, gets as deep into servicing his/her customers as Dave does. I am sure that most of us recognize this, and if it was only for the service provided here by Dave, I would wait even longer.

This also reminds me of a traffic jam on which some guys start to get desperate and sound the car's horn without noticing that the street is being repaired a few meters ahead, just to prevent cars from damaging.
Nothing is achieved by the horn sounding, because that is not going to make the repair process any faster ;)

Slow Clap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhTiJEYqqY8)
:D

mikej
11-16-2007, 03:13 PM
To those who are waiting for Leopard to get the little bugs worked out, and for SuperDuper to be Leopard friendly, I say: that is fine! But, my earlier point is that for those of us enjoying Leopard already, there is simply no need to go w/o proper backups. By suggesting CCC, I was endorsing that program from years of usage... never with any problems. I like the SuperDuper GUI better, but, hey... both really end up doing the same thing. So, if you are using Leopard, and want a good clone backup (bootable), do not take a chance, and use some other method to make your back ups. I would not trust my valuable data to a no back up scenario... waiting for SuperDuper is fine, but be wise and use an alternative for the time being.

Diazruanova
11-16-2007, 03:31 PM
Slow Clap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhTiJEYqqY8)
:D

:D Wow, LOL for the duration of the movie, please make it a little faster :)

Cardiakke
11-16-2007, 06:58 PM
This is getting long in the tooth!

Damn thing's been out for 22 days. Dev builds were floating around the net long before (Nod, nod, wink, wink).

I don't want to switch to another backup software. I bought this one!

I am disappointed :(

dnanian
11-16-2007, 07:02 PM
Please see the blog (http://www.shirt-pocket.com/blog) for an update.

KevinBBG
11-16-2007, 08:22 PM
Another alternative is to enjoy 10.4.11 while waiting for Apple to remove the land mines in 10.5.X. I've had a great day with 10.4.11 and its markedly improved Safari. While I sleep, my Mac starts up in the middle of the night to enable SD to continue to work flawlessly to update the three extra copies of the system, apps, and data, after which the Mac shuts down for the rest of the night. I can wait for an SD update to be well-done while Apple works to improve what I think is an unpolished offering in 10.5.X.

I always think a new OS needs at least 2 updates to be worth getting. They've done one so far and just recently. I am also waiting for some software to update. SD! isn't the only "must-have" software of mine that has not been updated to Leopard.

Besides, Tiger is working so flawlessly right now I hate to let it go. So I am not changing for a little bit yet.

n89b
11-16-2007, 09:07 PM
Thank you - this is exactly what I was hoping for. Now I know at least something about the progress of SD and I know that a release is not impending so I can go ahead and make provisions to stay backed-up until it's released. Thanks Dave.

bearheart
11-17-2007, 06:10 PM
One of the big challenges, by way of updating, is ensuring we can not just copy a Leopard install -- which is relatively easy -- but can also copy (and Smart Update) a Time Machine volume without doing a "low-level" copy... and also handle the types of file layouts Time Machine employs when used by other applications, should they choose to.

I've been patient up to now, but that ends here.

If all I'm waiting for is the ability to backup my Time Machine volumes, I don't really have any need for that. Time Machine is going to get turned off when I finally get to use SD again. Time Machine is useless for me, except as a stop-gap while I wait for SD to be ready for Leopard. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Please release a version that works, with the caveat that it won't backup TM volumes. I don't care if it's perfect for everyone, it just needs to work for most of us right now.

--Bill

bearheart
11-17-2007, 06:33 PM
Wow, I never thought there will be such a polemic discussion :confused:


You've lead a sheltered life.


As I see it, those who updated early to Leopard, should have taken into consideration that there are still, important apps that are NOT fully working,


Well, you see it wrong. It's not the responsibility of the consumer to ensure that the products s/he pays for work properly. That's just nuts.


Very few people in the Software Industry, gets as deep into servicing his/her customers as Dave does.


Now you're insulting me, and all the other hard-working software engineers out there.

Dave seems like a great guy and all, but he'd do himself and everyone else here a service if he'd quit reading the damn forums and just get the release out. Frankly I was surprised, and not pleasantly so, to see how much he posts in these forums.


Nothing is achieved by the horn sounding, because that is not going to make the repair process any faster ;)

If you really think that they guy who honks his horn in traffic does so to get the traffic ahead of him to move faster, you're even more naive than I thought you were. Which was already a lot.

--B

dnanian
11-17-2007, 07:17 PM
It's not just backing up Time Machine volumes, Bill. It's properly handling the structures involved, which can be used by any application.

jofallon
11-18-2007, 11:57 AM
There are still things that don't work quite right with third party products and Vista, over a year after its release. Video drivers are often still buggy; and there are still plenty of things that don't work quite as they used to in XP. And Microsoft devotes far more resources to developers than Apple will ever have.

Carbon Copy Clone doesn't always work quite right, judging by my own experience and the user forums. It does seem that Leopard may have been much more than just an incremental upgrade over Tiger; not that I've ever written code under OS X.

rdlsmith
11-18-2007, 02:06 PM
You've lead a sheltered life.



Well, you see it wrong. It's not the responsibility of the consumer to ensure that the products s/he pays for work properly. That's just nuts.


Now who's being "naive" ???

As having worked on both sides of the fence, hardward/network administration and now software development I can tell you if you install something without testing that everything you want to run will run you're not only naive you're probably close to being unemployed. Especially something like an OS upgrade. The consumer does have some responsibility here.

I think hardware people have a better grasp of this concept than software people. Especially when it comes to backup software and OS upgrades.

As for your comments about dnanian. That is just off base and rude. He may not be the best communicator but he's honest and I think hard working. I can just imagine the posts if he released something knowing it wouldn't work. One of the things I like best is the fact that I can come here and post and get a fast response. I may have to ask for clarification but he's on it.

You are a consumer. If you don't like the way SD works with Leopard either downgrade to 10.4.11 or find another solution. If you need help downgrading maybe we can help. Ask nicely. If we can't there are the apple support forums or maybe even tech support. I know, they're not the best but if you're half the techie you claim to be you should be able to deal with this situation better than you are.

I think you owe dnanian an apology. It's one thing to make requests and suggestions and maybe even tell him what you don't like but your comments were just rude.

I have made a choice. I forged ahead with Leopard knowing that Time Machine was suspect and SD wouldn't make a bootable copy. I choose to figure out how to make TM work and use that. Again, my choice. If things go south I won't have anything to work on without an install to an external and restore or an internal HD replacement and restore. Leopard isn't perfect by any means but there are reasons I need to use it.

As I understand it, SD will work with Leopard. It just won't make bootable copies? But you still have all your files backed up.

I look forward to the new release of SD. A stable release that I'm sure will be even better than what we enjoy now.

dnanian
11-18-2007, 03:37 PM
No apologies necessary: as I said, you're welcome to be rude to me, express your frustration, etc (within reason, of course). Just don't be rude to each other, eh?

eq2675
11-18-2007, 04:27 PM
To those who are waiting for Leopard to get the little bugs worked out, and for SuperDuper to be Leopard friendly, I say: that is fine! But, my earlier point is that for those of us enjoying Leopard already, there is simply no need to go w/o proper backups. By suggesting CCC, I was endorsing that program from years of usage... never with any problems. I like the SuperDuper GUI better, but, hey... both really end up doing the same thing. So, if you are using Leopard, and want a good clone backup (bootable), do not take a chance, and use some other method to make your back ups. I would not trust my valuable data to a no back up scenario... waiting for SuperDuper is fine, but be wise and use an alternative for the time being.

I was doing some testing with my Mac Mini and a FW400 drive. I was warned on another board that I was putting my OS at risk. Well that's OK because it's just a test system. Well I did accidently blow my OS away.

Then it took the usual amount of time to reinstall Leopard. More of a time consuming hassle than I remembered. Man, I wished i had of had a backup.

I'm using CCC now and it does work. I want my SuperDuper, but TimeMachine just doesn't cut it.

Thanks for posting an alternative.

Preston
11-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Well, did it work?
I did a backup from Leopard so that I could install the 10.5.1 update, and I did not realize that SuperDuper was not "Leopard-ready". It seemed to have backed up all the data files and applications, and the backup drive has almost the same amount of space used as the original. I booted from the backup and that worked, but some issues were immediately obvious: My desktop and dock preferences were not maintained. Instead they were the default values and the dock had only the default items in it - not the large number of applications and folders that were in my original, and not on the left side of my screen. I suspect that I could restore from this backup if necessary, but clearly some of the preferences are not being properly saved so I will hold off on my update to 10.5.1 until I know for sure that I have a backup I can trust.

Diazruanova
11-19-2007, 02:14 PM
You've lead a sheltered life.



Well, you see it wrong. It's not the responsibility of the consumer to ensure that the products s/he pays for work properly. That's just nuts.



Now you're insulting me, and all the other hard-working software engineers out there.

Dave seems like a great guy and all, but he'd do himself and everyone else here a service if he'd quit reading the damn forums and just get the release out. Frankly I was surprised, and not pleasantly so, to see how much he posts in these forums.



If you really think that they guy who honks his horn in traffic does so to get the traffic ahead of him to move faster, you're even more naive than I thought you were. Which was already a lot.

--B

Oh boy, another desperate, arrogant self centered guy!!!
Yeah, whatever dude, you are certainly right and everybody else is wrong.

Good for you !!! At least, being naive spares me the mental problems that anxiety creates on people like you. :rolleyes:

justflybob
11-19-2007, 09:10 PM
I did a backup from Leopard so that I could install the 10.5.1 update, and I did not realize that SuperDuper was not "Leopard-ready". It seemed to have backed up all the data files and applications, and the backup drive has almost the same amount of space used as the original. I booted from the backup and that worked, but some issues were immediately obvious: My desktop and dock preferences were not maintained. Instead they were the default values and the dock had only the default items in it - not the large number of applications and folders that were in my original, and not on the left side of my screen. I suspect that I could restore from this backup if necessary, but clearly some of the preferences are not being properly saved so I will hold off on my update to 10.5.1 until I know for sure that I have a backup I can trust.

Been there; done that; have mutiple t-shirts.

What I would recommend in your specific case is to downgrade to 10.4.11, and do a migration from the SD backup you now have. Once everything is back to normal, complete a new SD backup and wait for SD to be Leopard compatible. If SD is your bread and butter backup, it is as good as it gets for now. Probably not the answer you want to hear, but at least your data will be safe.