PDA

View Full Version : Upgrading to 10.5 Leopard: Best Approach?


AJ500
10-17-2007, 03:26 PM
I'm new to the Mac so please forgive any dumb assumptions. I purchased a new iMac in August with OS X 10.4.10. I also purchased SuperDisk 2.1.4 that I've been using to clone to an external FireWire 800 drive.

With OS X 10.5 coming out this month, I'd like to try it out safely. No doubt some of the apps I've installed will need to be upgraded for 10.5. In the meantime, I'd like to see what runs and what doesn't using the documents that I've already created on my Macitosh HD startup drive.

It looks like there are several options I could choose.

1. Create a second partition on the internal drive and install a fresh 10.5 on it, re-install my apps on that partition as well and access my documents from the other partition. The second partition would eventually become the primary partition after everything is working. This option seems like a lot of work to get the apps installed and preferences reset.

2. Create a second partition on the internal drive or external drive and use SD to create a Sandbox copy of 10.4 with shared applications. Then install 10.5 as an update to 10.4 in the sandbox. Once all my apps are running ok, I would apply the 10.5 upgrade to my original startup partition.

Option 1 lets me start with a fresh OS X. Is that better than upgrading the OS? In the Windows world, I never went the upgrade in place path.

Option 2 seems to be the least amount of work to test the switchover and let me at anytime boot to 10.4.

Are there other/better ways to upgrade the OS?

Thanks

dnanian
10-17-2007, 03:44 PM
I do not believe the Sandbox is going to work between Tiger (or Panther) and Leopard -- there are far too many changes in Leopard to be able to share a home folder. So that's not an option.

I think you'll need to have a second partition. Migrate from the Tiger partition, which'll bring over your data, and make sure you like it...

badlydrawnboy
10-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Dave,

I'm in the same boat, although I have a bit more flexibility because I have four drives - two internal, and two external. Current config is Sandbox on a 74 GB Raptor boot drive, HD on internal 750 GB drive. Back-up on 400 GB external FW drive, and another 400 GB external FW that has an extra back-up of my images.

I was wondering if it's possible to install 10.5 on the Sandbox to try it out, but after thinking about it more and reading your reply it doesn't sound like a good idea.

I guess I'd be better off zeroing my internal 750 GB, doing a clean install of 10.5 there, and migrating my apps & files from the SuperDuper clone of my current system on the external FW. The only problem with this is that I get very nervous only having one copy of my system/files, and that's where I'd be when I erase the internal 750 prior to installing 10.5. Guess I could risk it, or pick up yet another external FW drive.

dnanian
10-18-2007, 01:06 PM
No, I really would not use a Sandbox to install Leopard against a Tiger/Panther install.

And, yes, I understand the nervousness...

Coolcmsc
10-18-2007, 06:08 PM
Hi, I'm in a similar but more simple situation and would like an answer to the original question, "How to upgrade with the assistance of SD?"

I have a newish iMAC (August 2007) 24" with 10.4 and an external HD with 500GB and 800 FireWire. I have a cloned bootable exact copy of my iMAC HD on a 250GB partition on the external HD that was created by SD and is updated daily by SD.

So, is it best for me to make a final SD created update to my external HD from my iMAC HD (10.4 clone) and then do a vanilla install of 10.5 (Leopard) onto my iMAC HD? I could then copy my data files back to my new 10.5 iMAC and install my apps there too.

If it all goes pear shaped :(, then I could boot from my external HD and copy my 10.4 clone back to the iMAC HD using SD run from the external HD.

If all goes well :), I just wait until Shirt-Pocket confirm my current SD build will work with 10.5 or download the update that does. Then I just used SD as seems fit alongside TimeMachine.

I can avoid using TimeMachine until this time, or use it on the other 250GB partition on my external HD.

I thought this was how to use SD in this situation. But perhaps I'm missing something?

What do you all think of that plan?

dnanian
10-18-2007, 06:33 PM
Well, I think the first thing I'd try, after a full backup with SD!, of course, is an upgrade install. You can do the clean install if you have trouble with the upgrade, eh?

Coolcmsc
10-18-2007, 06:54 PM
Of course - thanks, C :)

scstrr
10-26-2007, 12:17 AM
Paranoid user with Power Mac G4/933 about to upgrade to Leopard.

Four HDs, 2 int and 2 ext.

int HD 1 - 120 GB

120 GB - Macintosh HD (main Tiger volume, base for Sandboxes)


int HD 2 - 250 GB

120 GB - ARCHIVE: Tiger + OS 9 boot + older User files
30 GB - OS 9 Clean
30 GB - Sandbox 0: Tiger Clean
30 GB - Sandbox 1: Tiger (no longer used)
30 GB - Sandbox 2: Current Tiger boot partition


ext HD 1 - 500 GB

500 GB - Documents (aliases from system partitions link to folders here)


ext HD 2 - 500 GB

500 GB - Smart Update BACKUP of Documents from ext HD 1


Gratuitous emoticon. :eek:


I think you'll need to have a second partition. Migrate from the Tiger partition, which'll bring over your data, and make sure you like it...
***
No, I really would not use a Sandbox to install Leopard against a Tiger/Panther install.
***
Well, I think the first thing I'd try, after a full backup with SD!, of course, is an upgrade install. You can do the clean install if you have trouble with the upgrade, eh?
__________________
--Dave Nanian


Judging from your comments, you would suggest NOT using Leopard to upgrade any Sandbox -- correct? p39 in the manual talks about applying System Updates freely to a Sandbox: but you don't suggest it for a *major* System Upgrade, right?

"Usage Tip" on p38 of the manual talks about keeping new application images and installers in a folder on the desktop in the Sandbox. Since it's shared with the original volume, you can restart under the original volume, and then apply those installers to the original volume.

You seem to say, then, that one should try an upgrade install of Leopard on the original volume (after backing it up!). Correct? If that doesn't work, one can wipe and reinstall Leopard clean, and using migration assistant to transfer files from the backup.

You seem to say that Sandbox won't work between different system versions: therefore, if I upgrade my base Macintosh HD partition above to Leopard, my three Sandbox Tiger partitions will stop working, correct?

Now the first BIG questions: when I use SuperDuper! to create Leopard Sandboxes, can I simply Smart Update, or will it be necessary to Erase the existing Sandbox partitions? I think I would only lose installed apps on a Sandbox, if I used the "Erase" option in SuperDuper! Sandbox, so the impact wouldn't be too bad. Or is there something else that would get lost?

Finally the second BIG question: suppose I erase the two 30 GB partitions containing Sandbox 0 and Sandbox 1. Suppose I clean install Leopard on Sandbox 0, and then use migration assistant, taking care to create aliases to the ext HD 1 with Documents folders so the 30 GB doesn't fill up. Suppose I then create a Leopard Sandbox on the Sandbox 1 partition. Now I would have partitions with Tiger, Tiger Sandbox, and also Leopard, Leopard Sandbox. Would this work? Is it advisable?

Or is there a better plan? Maybe you could mention the steps you at Shirt Pocket are taking?

All of the above presumes the use of the updated version of SuperDuper! after Leopard arrives. I'm presuming you don't suggest trying the existing version for either Smart Updates or Sandboxes?
__________________
--Suman

dnanian
10-26-2007, 12:27 AM
That's right: do NOT use a Sandbox for Tiger -> Leopard updates.

What I always do is back up and try an upgrade. If there's a problem, it's easy enough to clean install/migrate or restore and wait for the next version.

You will likely be able to Smart Update an existing Sandbox, but erasing won't hurt, since it's smaller than a full backup anyway (and likely to copy nearly everything again)...

Linking Documents probably would work -- but don't try to share too much of your Home folder, especially between different major OS versions.

NickRich
10-26-2007, 11:25 AM
My setup is pretty simple with just one external hard drive dedicated to a SuperDuper clone of my Mac hard drive.

Assuming I just can't wait to install Leopard (!) could I check your recommended procedure? As I understand it, Leopard will detect my external drive and offer to use it for Time Machine. Since I want to continue to use SD, presumably I should say no and wait for the Leopard compatible version of SD?

Or should I use Time Machine for now and reallocate the external drive to SD when the new version is available? I'm assuming I can't use the one drive for both?

Thanks.

Nick

dnanian
10-26-2007, 11:35 AM
You can partition your external drive into two volumes, one for Time Machine and one for SuperDuper. Or, you can get a new drive for Time Machine (since it really likes extra space -- given its intended use, the more the better.

NickRich
10-26-2007, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Dave. My present external drive is getting pretty full, so a new drive seems the best option.

scstrr
10-27-2007, 12:45 AM
That's right: do NOT use a Sandbox for Tiger -> Leopard updates.

What I always do is back up and try an upgrade. If there's a problem, it's easy enough to clean install/migrate or restore and wait for the next version.

You will likely be able to Smart Update an existing Sandbox, but erasing won't hurt, since it's smaller than a full backup anyway (and likely to copy nearly everything again)...

Linking Documents probably would work -- but don't try to share too much of your Home folder, especially between different major OS versions.

All right, I will *upgrade* my base HD with Leopard then: the one which my Sandboxes point to. In fact, that's going on now (2 hrs 19 mins left).

My Sandboxes will be orphaned until I recreate them: I will recreate a single Sandbox using erase instead of Smart Update, as you suggest. I will do this using the *current* version of SD 2.1.4, even though it's only partially compatible. I will treat it as a beta test, and see how it does.

The key answers seem to be to BACK UP your main system volume, and then upgrade its OS version, realizing that you will orphan any Sandboxes based on that main system volume. Then, you recreate the Sandboxes -- because of a major system change, Smart Update won't buy you much time savings, probably, so using the erase option is indicated.

Will do. If I find anything as a "tester" I will post it.

P.S. I link Documents mostly for iTunes. That has the lions share of storage (near 200 GB now). I link the "iTunes Music" folder inside the iTunes folder. That leaves all the settings files within the home folder. I also follow the "Kinkless Desktop" by putting all my own documents in an Archive folder, leaving the actually Documents folder alone for "Microsoft User Data" and other such application detritus. :D

scstrr
10-27-2007, 10:57 PM
All right, I will *upgrade* my base HD with Leopard then: the one which my Sandboxes point to. In fact, that's going on now (2 hrs 19 mins left).

My Sandboxes will be orphaned until I recreate them: I will recreate a single Sandbox using erase instead of Smart Update, as you suggest. I will do this using the *current* version of SD 2.1.4, even though it's only partially compatible. I will treat it as a beta test, and see how it does.


Note 1: When SD took 5 mins or so while repairing before copying, I halted it. Ran repair permissions from Disk Utility. Repair Permissions took almost 20 minutes under Leopard.

Note 2: Then I ran SD 2.1.4 to erase/create a Sandbox in a 30 GB partition. I set it to reboot from that Sandbox, but it's spent 15 minutes at the grey apple logo screen with the circle of rotating pills. YMMV, but it seems Dave wasn't kidding when he said the current version of SD is not fully compatible. I'll do a hard power down and then see if it boots (maybe I'll even zap the PRAM).

Question: Say you have 3 partitions: Sandbox, Main System, and Data. The user folder in the Main System partition has aliases to Documents folder in Data partition. Currently, I emphasize backing up Data, figuring I can always reinstall system software. But ideally, should you have a backup drive which has matching partitions and back up each using SD? Dave, do you (Shirt Pocket) clone your main system and all Sandbox partitions regularly? If so, would you mind saying if you do it weekly or daily or whatever your scheme is? Anyone else clone their Sandbox and Main System partitions?
__________________
--Suman (all hail Dave Nanian)

dnanian
10-27-2007, 11:01 PM
I never clone the Sandbox: I only back up my partitions that I can't recreate easily (a Sandbox, being based on a main partition, isn't backed up).

And, no, I wasn't kidding about Leopard compatibility. The data's all there, but the metadata isn't perfect due to changes in Leopard...

scstrr
10-28-2007, 12:38 AM
I never clone the Sandbox: I only back up my partitions that I can't recreate easily (a Sandbox, being based on a main partition, isn't backed up).

And, no, I wasn't kidding about Leopard compatibility. The data's all there, but the metadata isn't perfect due to changes in Leopard...

Having main and data partitions, I'm cloning the data partition. I may just buy a bigger external hard drive, create matching partitions there, and SD clone both main and data partitions. Maybe I'll even take the time to schedule SD so it will do it daily, instead of doing it manually.

I've abandoned my tentative Sandbox. I'm just going to run off my main partition, but *hold off* as much as I can on installing anything: no Kensington or Powermate drivers, or other such, as much as possible. When SD! is updated, then I think I'll recreate the Sandbox, and start installing stuff.

I wonder if Shirt Pocket is considering that folx with laptops may implement a TM partition thereon, instead of or in addition to a Sandbox partition. If so, I wonder what they will say about using SD to clone a *TIME MACHINE* partition? It seems silly ... but maybe not. Since that's a future feature, it may not be discussable.
_________________
-- Suman