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jreffner
04-04-2007, 11:59 AM
Hello,

When I can eventually afford a new Intel Mac, I plan to have Windows (via Boot Camp) on a drive by itself. I'll want to clone this drive just as I would any Mac OS drive. I realize that SD! won't clone an NTFS drive and that I'll have to use a Windows app to do this. I also know that Retrospect will do this, but I'm wondering if anyone out there has a suggestion that is "better" than Retrospect. I consider SD! to be "better" because it's simple, fast, and cheap.

Please provide any opinions or suggestions you might have.

Many thanks!

dnanian
04-04-2007, 12:18 PM
Perhaps Acronis DriveImage?

jreffner
04-05-2007, 12:23 PM
Dave,

Thanks for the advice! Since this will clone the drive, I assume that it will make the external drive bootable?

Also, do you know if I'll be able to boot the Windows clone drive via FireWire, or will only USB 2.0 work?

This will be on an Apple computer. I recall reading that non-Apple PCs can't boot via FireWire. Do you know if this is correct?

Thanks,

Jim

dnanian
04-05-2007, 12:33 PM
I just don't know if the drive will be bootable, Jim, sorry, and I can't tell you about non-Apple computers -- just don't have enough experience with them to help.

jreffner
04-05-2007, 11:19 PM
Dave,

That's fine. You've always been a huge help. If I can find the answer, I'll be sure to post it in case it helps someone else.

Thanks,

jim

jreffner
04-11-2007, 11:35 AM
Ok, here is a follow-up to my initial question in case others find it useful. I want to clone a Windows Vista drive on my Mac in the same manner I use SuperDuper! to clone my Mac OS X drive.

I asked for advice as to which Windows app would do this besides Retrospect. Acronis was the only suggestion made. So upon reading the info at their site I was left with no information other than the usual, "it looks pretty, so buy it". So finally, I had a chat with Alex at Acronis who only became confused when I mentioned terms such as, "Macintosh" and "Boot Camp". Finally I skipped all of that and just asked him if I could use Acronis Drive Image 10. Home to make a Smart Clone of an internal Windows drive to an external FireWire drive. The short answer is, No. It will apparently make a bootable clone, but it won't make a SMART bootable clone. Hence it would be like using SD! in its free mode (a complete waste of time). The chat is pasted below for anyone who wants the details.

I'd also appreciate any other suggestions as to which Windows app I should use to make a Smart clone of my Windows drive. For that matter, I'm not even 100% sure that Retrospect Professional, Express, or HD will do it. It's becoming apparent that the way of thinking in the Windows world is to create an image of the source drive to the destination drive. Then boot from a bootable CD (in the worst case) and use the app on the CD to copy the image back to the original source drive not in the form of an image, but rather in the form of a working bootable drive with the file system and structure in-tact.

Suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Enjoy the chat log.

Jim




Thank you for contacting Acronis! The chat operator will be with you approximately in 0 minute(s) and 13 seconds. Thank you for waiting.
You are now chatting with 'Alex'
Alex: Hello! Thank you for contacting Acronis Sales Team! My name is Alex, how can I assist you?
James Reffner: Hi, I have a few questions if you don't mind.
James Reffner: I'm planning on running this application on a Macintosh under Aplle's Boot Camp (which runs native Windows). Are you following me?
James Reffner: I need to know if this application will allow me to clone an internal SATA drive to another internal SATA drive, AND will it also allow me to clone it to an external FireWire drive?
Alex: We do not support MAC OS. But if you can install trial on such machine then you can use full version
Alex: We do not expect any difficulties with this hardware configuration.
Alex: We may recommend you to install a trial version available at http://www.acronis.com/download/ in order to make sure that the program runs flawless for you.
James Reffner: I realize you don't support the Mac OS. I'm not planning on running it under the Mac OS. I'm planning on running it on a Mac maching under Boot camp which runs native Windows OS and apps. Do you know what this is?
James Reffner: Ok, forget that, please just tell me if this appication will make me a bootable clone.
Alex: What do you mean by 'bootable clone'?
James Reffner: I want an app that will duplicate a drive to another drive that is bootable. I don't want an app that will copy a drive to another drive in a single file or multiple file sets. I want an exact duplicate with the file structure in-tact and I want it to be bootable.
Alex: Yes, Acronis True Image 10.0 Home can do that
Alex: http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/
Alex: You can try a trial
Alex: Acronis True Image trial version has the following limitations:
Alex: Windows: all are functions available, 15-days trial period
Alex: Acronis Bootable Rescue Media: Recovery feature is available only
James Reffner: Great, so I assume that I can duplicate ot clone an internal esata drive to another internal esata drive then?
Alex: That is correct. Acronis True Image 10.0 Home supports SATA
James Reffner: Ok then can it duplicate an internal SATA drive to an external FireWire drive and make it bootable?
Alex: It is different hardware and you will need to use Acronis True Image 9.1 Workstation with Acronis Universal Restore
Alex: http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATICW/
James Reffner: I'm sorry, but I'm not following you. Of course it's different hardware. Are you telling me that True Image 10 Home doesn't support external drive, or that it doesn't support FireWire, or that it can duplicate to an external FireWire drive, but it just can't make it bootable?
Alex: Sorry, let me explain
Alex: Acronis True Image 10.0 Home supports Fireware drives and ext drives as well. But if you do simple clone to ext drive your OS will be unbootable. You have to create image and restore it using Acronis Universal Restore option which can be purchased with Acronis True Image 9.1 Workstation
James Reffner: Ok, thank you. So am I correct in assuming that there is no way then using any of the Acronis apps to Clone or duplicate my internal Windows drive to another drive so that in the even of a catastrophe I could boot to the clone, open an Acronis application and duplicate or clone the bootable clone that I'm booted from back to the original/internal Windows drive that somehow became damaged withing reinstalling the Windows OS or any Acronis apps at all?
Alex: Please check the following page and tell me what exactly do you understand by 'clone' term here?
Alex: http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/support/kb/?aid=475
James Reffner: Thank you, now that was helpful! I do NOT want to create an image file. I want to use the "Disk Clone Tool" to clone the internal SATA Windows Vista drive to an External FireWire drive so that when I screw up my internal drive I can can simply boot to the extrnal FireWire drive and reverse the normal direction of the Clone Tool making the source the external drive (which I would be currenly booted from since the internal drive would be screwed up), and the destination for the Clone Tool would be the internal drive. I then procede to transfere the data from the external clone to the internal drive. A few minutes to hours later, I simply reboot to the fixed (a.k.a. non-screwed up) internal drive and all is back to how it should be.
Alex: Ok. If I understand you in a right way: you wish to do clone to ext drive and in case of disaster make clone from ext to internal drive, correct?
James Reffner: You got it!
Alex: Ok
Alex: You can do that BUT
James Reffner: Will Home 10 do this? Does it come with a "CloneTool"?
Alex: Yes it does. BUT it is much better to do IMAGES
Alex: You can save space and restore them in the same way.
Alex: from boot CD
James Reffner: So you're saying that it's better to create an image on the external drive, and then use a bootable CD to copy the image from the external drive back to the internal drive, not in the form of an image, but in the form of a bootable disk with the file structure in-tact?
Alex: Create image, save it to ext drive and RESTORE (not copy) to int drive
Alex: It is better and faster. Moreover you can validate images to make sure everything was copied ok
James Reffner: But what if your internal drive is unbootable? Are you implying that the restoration takes place while being booted from a CD?
Alex: Yes, in case your int hd is unbootable should use boot CD
Alex: you can create such CD in Windows
James Reffner: Ok, so why is this better? I understand that you validate the image, but aren't the odds of using the Clone Tool to "clone" all of the files reliable too?
Alex: after installation
Alex: It is better because you can use incremental/differential backups also:
Alex: http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/support/kb/?aid=469
Alex: for saving space and keep your backup up to date
James Reffner: Ok, I understand that. Is there also a fear that if I use the clone tool and clone the drive AFTER a critical file has been damaged that all I will do is copy a damaged file to the external drive an thereby create a worthless clone when I need it?
Alex: Yes and in this case you can be ok if used full backup + set of incrementals scenario
James Reffner: Alright, one more question. Assuming that I choos to ignore your advice, and still use the Clone Tool to clone the internal drive to an external drive, will the "CloneTool" in Acronis True Image 10.0 Home clone every file each time I run it, or will it be "smart" enought to only copy the files that have changed from the internal to the external? Additionally, if I have deleted "file X" from the internal, will it be smart enough to delete "file X" from the external drive that it copied there in a previous session?
Alex: It do the exact clone each time you run it. It is not 'smart'
Alex: but if you do images you can use differential/incremental backups and they are 'smart' enough
Alex: they will save all changes you made
Alex: for example you delete X file
Alex: by mistake, but it is important for you
Alex: you can get it from incremental set
Alex: and be ok once again
James Reffner: Ok, so basically the image method is "smart", but the Cloning Tool is not. Correct?
Alex: Correct
Alex: Clone Tool do the exact clone of the original
James Reffner: Thank you very much Alex. You have been extremely helpful!

julianv
05-04-2007, 03:55 AM
You might have a look at WinClone

http://www.twocanoes.com/winclone/

I have not used it, but I've read several favorable comments from users.

k9jri
05-20-2007, 04:51 PM
I use SD to clone my MacBook OS X drive and WinClone to image the Bootcamp partition. WinClone works extremely well for this function.

Almost (not quite) as easy as SuperDuper! Great software Dave. Thanks

Mike

bkengland
10-11-2007, 06:50 PM
I did a fair amount or research regarding what you want to do, and one specific requirement was bootability and sector-by-sector copying. From what I was able to determine, the current versions of True Image will in fact do this. You might check it out again (version 10 currently, I believe).
Good luck if you still need it!
Bruce

jreffner
10-16-2007, 12:45 PM
So, I'm checking out WinClone and I'm assuming that this is a Mac app that I use to copy the entire Windows drive to an image file which I would store on a separate Mac formatted drive.

Is this correct? Can I choose the destination drive for the image?

Additionally, if my Windows drive is 1TB, then will I have to have a 1TB drive to copy the image to, or will it depend on how much of that 1TB drive I'm actually using? In other words, If my Windows drive is 1TB, but the entire Windows OS and apps weigh in at 100 GB then will the image created by WinClone only be 100 GB or will it be 1 TB?

Finally, has anyone actually tried restoring from WinClone? Does it work?

One more thing, I appreciate the new Acronis info, but I'll look into it only if the WinClone idea won't work.

Ruben
04-27-2008, 05:20 AM
Although you can do the same with DiskUtility, Winclone makes restoring a bit easier. Recommended because its fast and dev. is very serious.
Its doesnt smartupdate, but you dont have to restart and pre-install and all that. Quick and dirty?: Winclone.. (also fat32). Good luck

randy050
04-27-2008, 12:28 PM
I agree that Winclone is your best bet. I recently put a 320 gb HD in my 1st generation Macbook and Superduper did exactly what it was supposed to do and Winclone made a lager Bootcamp partition and copied my winclone backup to it and everything worked great and now I have more space than I know what to do with. Save yourself some money and use it over Acronis True image. That is a good program but this is for the purpose you want and works great.

mejico
04-29-2008, 07:06 PM
I have found Acronis True image Home (v11) to be the best imaging software for XP. It will safely create partition or complete hdd images on the fly (ie from within windows) The images can be a file that is stored on any type of storage media (eg on a hdd or to dvd) or directly to another hdd (eg cloning) it also has an incremental backup facility. The image will be an exact copy of the target drive or partiton or file.

Now to show my ignorance, can SuperDuper create images of the entire HDD or just the partition?

dnanian
04-30-2008, 12:12 AM
SuperDuper! copies files from a selected volume, not a physical drive.

rock15478
05-08-2008, 12:12 PM
So maybe I just let little things bother me too much, but as I was searching the net for a PC equivalent to SD!, I came across this thread...

http://forums.dealmac.com/read.php?5,2595575,2596029

Now is it just me, or does this bother anyone else? To my knowledge, there is not a single PC equivalent that actually makes a complete bootable copy of your hard drive - without having to boot from a CD or just making an image file. SD! lets you view the contents of the drive and it's bootable - it's a mere clone of the drive. Now, the guy on this thread is acting like Acronis or Norton Ghost is simply just as good as SD! and that Mac people have their "heads in the sand." What bothers me is that he's saying the guy only wished there was a PC equivalent as "cheap" as SD! However, regardless of price, there still isn't an equivalent and no one set that guy straight. I considered replying, yet I realized this thread is almost 2 years old.

Why does this bother me so much? Maybe I'm crazy. Just thought I'd share.

dnanian
05-08-2008, 12:18 PM
I try to not pay much attention to this kind of thing... :)

hand123
10-23-2008, 04:30 PM
Try xxclone. You can make bootable windows hard drive clones, including NTFS. http://www.xxclone.com

pxlpshr
12-04-2008, 01:52 PM
I may need to start another forum thread, but this seems really close to my situation. I am looking at SD! to clone my boot drive in transition to a larger drive. I have a partition on a secondary drive for BootCamp. But I want to clone this Bootcamp partition to another stand alone drive that will not be partitioned. Can SD! handle the Bootcamp partition (running Win XP) to another drive or do I need WinClone in addition to SD! Thanks for your help!

dnanian
12-04-2008, 01:55 PM
You have to use something else for that volume: we don't copy non-HFS+ stuff.

BigJim
08-12-2009, 10:01 PM
I'm the IT grunt for my company (all Dell Windows gear) and I bought an Apricorn "Hard Drive Adapter" a year ago to clone PCs' HDs. It comes with a nifty dual PATA/SATA adapter plug, power (wall wart) power supply (to power the external drive), a USB cable, and a software CD. It lets me clone in any combination: external to/from internal, workstation(3.5")/laptop(2.5"), PATA/SATA. The software CD contains support for cloning MAC drives (via Shirt-Sleeve's SuperDuper!) and Windows drives .. making bootable HDs in both environments. It couldn't be easier to use and it's saved my bacon on several PC occasions. I have not used it with MACs Intel platform .. dunno how well it works with cloning such drives.

I bought it from a local computer store, and you can order it from the company's website <B>www.apricorn.com</B> .. depending upon what promotions are going at the time, it sells for $29.95 or $39.95.

No, I don't work for Apricorn - nor Shirt-Sleeve. Hope this helps.

dnanian
08-12-2009, 11:50 PM
That's Shirt pocket - not Shirt-Sleeve! :)

sjk
08-13-2009, 06:36 PM
Your description of that Apricon adaptor (which I couldn't find on their site) basically matches this:

Newer Technology Universal Drive Adapter -... (U2NV2SPATA) at OWC (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/U2NV2SPATA/)