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Shouldnadunthat
10-22-2006, 11:37 AM
I live in Japan although a North American native, my OS is in English. I own a Buffalo 300 GB ext firewire hard drive which has Maxtor components within it. I copied two separate clones of my internal HD onto partitions over the last 6 months. A few days ago, I went to test a clone for the first time, with a restart holding down the option key, yet I could not see any drives at all, just a return arrrow and a forward arrow upon a gray screen -similarly to a post from a person with an older machine.

I assumed this was due to the Buffalo drive's incompatibility and three days ago I bought another certainly compatible hard drive from SD's list; a LaCie 250 GB firewire hard drive design by FA Porche (product code 30070703J). Same problem, the clones do not appear for booting. I double checked in System Preferences-Startup but no external drives appear. Each drive (on partitions) do however appear readily for SD smart updates which run without error, and they also appear in Disk Utility in perfect shape where I have verified the disks.

I am unable to repair permissions on these external drives and that problem is confirmed below in disk utilitie's: "Can Repair Permissions-No."

Running Disk Warrior did not help any either.

Ignore ownership is not checked and never has been.

The disk is partitioned with the disk utility and is not in fat DOS.


Mount Point : /Volumes/LaCie Mac OS X 1 Capacity : 40.5 GB (43,512,504,320 Bytes)
Format : Mac OS Extended (Journaled) Available : 314.5 MB (329,814,016 Bytes)
Owners Enabled : Yes Used : 40.2 GB (43,182,690,304 Bytes)
Number of Folders : 2,745 Number of Files : 24,802
Name : LaCie Mac OS X 1
Type : Volume

Disk Identifier : disk1s3
Mount Point : /Volumes/LaCie Mac OS X 1
File System : Mac OS Extended (Journaled)
Connection Bus : FireWire
Partition Type : Apple_HFS
Device Tree : fw/node@d04b690d0579b0/sbp-2@c000/@0:3
Writable : Yes

Capacity : 40.5 GB (43,512,504,320 Bytes)
Free Space : 314.5 MB (329,814,016 Bytes)
Used : 40.2 GB (43,182,690,304 Bytes)
Number of Files : 24,802
Number of Folders : 2,745
Owners Enabled : Yes
Can Turn Owners Off : Yes
Can Repair Permissions : No
Can Be Verified : Yes
Can Be Repaired : Yes
Can Be Formatted : Yes
Bootable : Yes
Supports Journaling : Yes
Journaled : Yes
S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
Disk Number : 1
Partition Number : 3

I added the fix into terminal recommended on another thread which i hoped would settle this tiger preferences problem, but it did not. The removed file by the way, appears immediately back in place after a restart -I checked, not sure if that is OK or has anything to do with it? I am not well versed in terminal but I did what you said to do.

I hope someone can indicate what I can do next as I would love to go backwards a bit to one of my older clones prior to the 10.4.8 update which has caused some trouble with Photoshop and audio apps, although I have now gotten them working from some fixes learned elsewhere online, but neveer the less want this machine ready if it ever has a mighty crash. I now have 4 clones on two different external hard drives awaiting to become full grown computers! :) thanks!

dnanian
10-22-2006, 11:40 AM
Please open Disk Utility and click the drive (not the volume). What partition "scheme" is used?

Shouldnadunthat
10-23-2006, 12:58 AM
On the LaCie I did the partitioning within the Disk utility, Mac OS Extended (Journaled) 3 partitions, 40, 40 and 150 Apple Partition Map

Name : LaCie Group SA
Type : Disk

Disk Identifier : disk1
Media Name : SAMSUNG SP2514N Media
Media Type : Generic
Connection Bus : FireWire
Connection Type : External
Connection ID : 58629709717928368
Partition Type : Apple_partition_scheme
Device Tree : fw/node@d04b690d0579b0/sbp-2@c000/@0:0
Writable : Yes
Ejectable : Yes
Mac OS 9 Drivers Installed : No
Location : External
Total Capacity : 232.9 GB (250,059,350,016 Bytes)
S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
Disk Number : 1
Partition Number : 0


Disk Description : LaCie Group SA Total Capacity : 232.9 GB (250,059,350,016 Bytes)
Connection Bus : FireWire Write Status : Read/Write
Connection Type : External S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
Connection ID : 58629709717928368
Partition Scheme : Apple Partition Map

2. The Buffalo-Melco Harddrive partitions were created in the same manner.
Disk Description : MELCO INC. Total Capacity : 298.1 GB (320,072,933,376 Bytes)
Connection Bus : FireWire Write Status : Read/Write
Connection Type : External S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
Connection ID : 18056188809813091 Partition Scheme : Apple Partition Map

info:
Name : MELCO INC.
Type : Disk

Disk Identifier : disk1
Media Name : WDC WD3200JB-00KFA0 Media
Media Type : Generic
Connection Bus : FireWire
Connection Type : External
Connection ID : 18056188809813091
Partition Type : Apple_partition_scheme
Device Tree : fw/node@40260210019c63/sbp-2@4000/@0:0
Writable : Yes
Ejectable : Yes
Mac OS 9 Drivers Installed : No
Location : External
Total Capacity : 298.1 GB (320,072,933,376 Bytes)
S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
Disk Number : 1
Partition Number : 0


One of the three partitions has these figures:
Mount Point : /Volumes/Ext Boot Drive FW SuperDuper Capacity : 74.7 GB (80,174,993,408 Bytes)
Format : Mac OS Extended (Journaled) Available : 26.2 GB (28,180,443,136 Bytes)
Owners Enabled : Yes Used : 48.4 GB (51,994,550,272 Bytes)
Number of Folders : 7,412 Number of Files : 45,789

info:
Name : Ext 74 GB FireW Partition
Type : Volume

Disk Identifier : disk1s5
Mount Point : /Volumes/Ext 74 GB FireW Partition
File System : Mac OS Extended (Journaled)
Connection Bus : FireWire
Partition Type : Apple_HFS
Device Tree : IODeviceTree:fw/node@40260210019c63/sbp-2@4000
Writable : Yes

Capacity : 74.7 GB (80,174,993,408 Bytes)
Free Space : 39.8 GB (42,737,451,008 Bytes)
Used : 34.9 GB (37,437,542,400 Bytes)
Number of Files : 37,628
Number of Folders : 4,732
Owners Enabled : Yes
Can Turn Owners Off : Yes
Can Repair Permissions : No
Can Be Verified : Yes
Can Be Repaired : Yes
Can Be Formatted : Yes
Bootable : Yes
Supports Journaling : Yes
Journaled : Yes
S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
Disk Number : 1
Partition Number : 5

dnanian
10-23-2006, 11:45 AM
We've had reports of various LaCie Porsche Design drives that require multiple refreshes to show up when connected. We've also heard on occasion that Journaling can prevent them from booting as expected.

Both of these are why we generally don't recommend them, even though they're cheap -- we prefer the d2/d3 "aluminum" drives or the Little Big Disk.

Anyway, you might want to try disabling journaling with diskutil; also, try simplifying your FireWire bus to only the LaCie and refresh a few times to see if it shows up...

Shouldnadunthat
10-24-2006, 11:22 AM
When you say "try refreshing" the hard drive several times, since I am new to the whole firewire hard drive scheme, I am not sure what refreshing entails, but I assume it means ejecting the drive, then turning it off on the drive, and turning it back on? I gave that a whirl as well as trying three different firewire cables to no avail.

You also note that I ought to try to "turn off journaling" in disk utility, I've got disk utility open right now and I can not see any way to do so with the clones I have made. Do you mean back up my computer once again with superduper, and when making a new clone, set the journaling off?

Lastly, I did not realize there were some 2006 LaCie firewire hard drives that did not work for some people.

dnanian wrote: Both of these are why we generally don't recommend them, even though they're cheap -- we prefer the d2/d3 "aluminum" drives or the Little Big Disk.

It is probably not the best time to be calling a $180 "LaCie Firewire Drive "cheap," unless that means you are making an offer on mine as I doubt I can take it back, and I already have another new yet incompatible $190 Maxtor component firewire hard drive. ;)

Where are the deeper details written? Must be buried on page two or three? It is not on the Superduper homepage where requirements are posted (quoted beneath.) It would very likely serve many others if precise details of which LaCie Firewire drives are problematic, posted on page one of the deeply detailed homepage, where the "requirements" are listed The only warning that stood out to me under "requirements" is that one should not to buy a USB hard drive

From the superduper homepage:

System Requirements
Mac OS X 10.3.9 or later (including 10.4 "Tiger")

Please note that SuperDuper! is not designed to back up to CDs, DVDs or Tape, and needs a location (other than the boot volume) to store the backup - typically a volume on an internal or external (FireWire) drive. Note also that USB drives do not allow booting Power PC based Macintoshes under any version of Mac OS X: this is not a SuperDuper! limitation, but one of the OS. If you would like to boot from a backup stored on an external drive, and have a Power PC based Mac, please purchase a Mac compatible FireWire drive.






.

dnanian
10-24-2006, 11:26 AM
Well, the key there is "Mac compatible". I have more details in the User's Guide.

To refresh the list of drives, press the "Circle arrow" in the Option-boot screen.

I didn't mean to imply that the Porsche Design drive (which should cost about $130, and has been as low as $100) was "cheap" in the "no big deal" sense -- just that it's LaCie's "bargain priced" line -- less expensive than their other drives, and designed to be less expensive to manufacture, etc.

greengrass
10-24-2006, 06:56 PM
Just to offer another opinion, and not to say other people are imagining things, but I have a 250GB LaCie Porche Firewire drive formatted as Journaled HFS+ that works fine with SuperDuper. I occasionally boot from this drive by holding down Option when starting up and it always shows up and boots.

I should note that it sometimes shows up with its partition name and sometimes with the source hard drive's name. I don't understand why it does this but it correctly boots either way.

I believe LaCie has issued firmware updates in the past and I wonder whether updating to the latest version would make a difference to those having problems.

dnanian
10-24-2006, 08:58 PM
It's possible, of course -- we've had mixed results as well, which is why I don't generally recommend the drives. LaCie provided the "journaled" comment (which didn't make sense to me, but seemed to solve some users' problems).

It's possible that there are a number of different hardware revisions in the Porsche cases, too.

But, if people aren't running the most recent firmware, that's usually a good thing to try.

Shouldnadunthat
10-26-2006, 08:20 AM
thanks greengrass: Do you have the same Powerbook model as me? incidently, when I restart with the Option key down, no external drives show up at all, nor do they appear if you go to the Start up window in System Prefs, which is another place you can boot from if the drive shows up.

thanks dnanian:
In continuation of trying different things to get the external drive(s) to be seen for booting, I reformatted the entire LaCie again, partitioned it again, although this time without journaling on,as you mentioned, and the data successfully backed up my internal hard drive to the LaCie, but as before, the drive did not show for booting as usual. Additionally, the new clone does show up in Disk Utility for disk repair etc., but preferences are not accessible for repair (those options are still grayed out). Are permissions repairable from Disk Utility on your external drives made from superduper?

next.....I should also note that prior to the latest non jounalled cloning, I repaired the Mac Internal Harddrive's permissions with disk utility from the mac os x startup disk (while not running the internal hard drive).

I also tried refreshing the drive and volumes a few dozen times and ways, including trying out three different firewire cables as I read of one person who succeeded after switching cables. I also tried removing all other attached cables, printers, web connections, even power and battery for a moment, as there is an report from Apple that doing so could refresh and enable a problematic drive.

Now here is the final twist...........Last night I also downloaded and installed Carbon Copy Cloner's latest version 2.3 which now works with Mac OS X. CCC did not work with Tiger back at the time I bought Superduper, about 6 months ago, according to the Bombich forum adminst and many users.

The first time I ran CCC, the clone ran out of space on my 45GB partition, which amply held all of the Superduper clone, so these two cloners create different size clones in the end. My internal HD holds 74 GB and I have it full to about 67GB. So I made another CCC clone on another new partition that has 150 GB capacity and the CCC clone was created fine, and low and behold, the Carbon Copy Cloner booted! :eek:

So now I finally got to witness a clone of my hard drive running from the external La Cie hard drive, which I thought was pretty cool, although i can't say this was due to Superduper because it was not.

I also took a look at the clone in disk utility, and the CCC clone does allow me to check and repair permissions, which as I stated earlier, with Superduper's clone those options are grayed out and not available.

I presume this information might help y'all at Superduper figure out what I might be able to do to get Superduper to work with this computer, as I am still befuddled but I must also soon call a close to bothering with booting my old superduper clones anymore as I can successfully get the job done with CCC from this point onward.

dnanian
10-26-2006, 10:36 AM
I don't understand at all why "Backup - all files" wouldn't allow repair or show up in a Startup Disk list, unless you perhaps copied with something other than "Backup - all files".

Shouldnadunthat
10-26-2006, 11:34 PM
I copied "all files."

If there is some way for you to compare the SD and CCC logs or take a look at my console or anything else thatmight determine why one would work but not the other, let me know and I will send you the data.

dnanian
10-26-2006, 11:50 PM
Open the SD! log and click "Send to shirt pocket" and I'll be happy to take a look.

Shouldnadunthat
10-28-2006, 04:21 AM
I don't have a mail account set up to send a log directly so I emailed the logs.


Note that I also made a successful, bootable CCC clone onto the Buffalo Firewire 300 GB drive, so it was not a problem with the LaCie drive (which I stated earlier has Maxtor hardware within it) and it too booted after cloning.