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BudSimrin
12-05-2004, 12:41 AM
I did my first backup to a new drive, erasing and then copying all. When I boot from the backup drive, most things work very well. However, when I launch any application from the Dock I get a 2nd copy of the app in the dock. I verified that the 1st Dock image is linked to the backup drive yet the 2nd dock image is linked to the 1st drive (Macintosh HD).

A similar problem I noticed exists with MaxMenus. All apps and folders referenced are on Macintosh HD rather than on the backup drive. Also all my settings for target locations (downloads, Stuffit, disk copy, etc.) are still on Macintosh HD. It would be nicer if somehow these things would refer to the corresponding backup drive locations.
:eek:

dnanian
12-05-2004, 12:45 AM
Hi, Bud. We just had another user report this problem, and I think we've got an easy workaround.

If you're booting from the clone while the original drive is in place, "older" Carbon applications or aliases might get confused because they sometimes use the volume name to locate their "originals".

To work around this issue (which seems to happen less in Panther), boot back to your original drive, and then try naming the backup drive the same as the original. Update your backup with Smart Update, and boot from it again -- I believe you'll find the problem won't happen any more.

Let me know if that helps.

BudSimrin
12-07-2004, 10:20 AM
http://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/newreply.php#

However, I hesitate to use this particular work-around. I fear that with 2 drives with exactly the same name, I'll accidentally clone in the wrong direction at some future time. I can imagine all sorts of situations where this setup would confuse me. For example if I option-boot I will have to select between 2 drives to boot with that both have the same name and I won't have any way to know which is which until after the full bootup.

I can easily live with this problem and I'll just hope that I don't often have to boot from my backup drive. At least all the files are there and the few settings that are off can be fairly quickly fixed shoud I ever be stuck with having to clone the main drive from the backup.

:eek: ;)

dnanian
12-07-2004, 11:08 AM
It's harder to make a mistake than you might think: SuperDuper! won't let you set the boot drive as a destination.

You don't have to always have the drive named the same as the source drive, Bud. You only have to do this when you're going to boot from it. When it's just sitting there as a backup target, it doesn't matter.

It also doesn't matter if you're going to boot from it when the other, original drive isn't present, since the aliases involved will re-resolve to their new targets.

The problem occurs when the alias can resolve to a file that already exists in its original location -- namely, the original drive. In that case, aliases end up referring to the original: the path of least resistance.

By naming your drive Macintosh HD (or whatever your original was), the aliases do the least work possible: namely, they just resolve to their new, cloned location rather than the original.

Remember: if you want to call the drive "Backup" (or whatever), that's no problem, but (this seems to be only under Jaguar) you should probably restore using the Jaguar boot disk, rather than booting from the clone (unless you rename the clone to the original drive name before you boot from it).

Hope that helps...

BudSimrin
12-08-2004, 12:06 AM
Thanks, Dave. I don't quite have it yet, and if this is too tiresome, please don't reply. Please tell me one more time the best sequence of events to accomplish the following. I want to clone Macintosh HD to BKUP. I don't mind having them both called Macintosh HD during the cloning process, but afterwards I want the target to regain its name BKUP. Then I continue to boot as usual from Macintosh HD but one day Macintosh HD is corrupted to the point where I wish to boot from BKUP. At that time can I rename the orginal Macintosh HD temporarily to something like "Original Mac HD", then rename BKUP to Macintosh HD, and then boot from the backup? I know you told me I couldn't just rename the 2 drives any old time I wish, and I proved that by messing up the original hard drive and having to repair it with DiskWarrior. So, when CAN I safely rename either drive? Do I need to sometimes boot from something else in order to rename?

I think the sequence starts like this. Having booted from Macintosh HD I rename BKUP to Macintosh HD. I then clone from boot disk to target disk. This preserves the correct paths for all aliases. Were I to now reboot from the target drive, it would do just fine, right? But, I don't wish to boot from it right now, I just want it to be called BKUP. Just exactly when and how can I rename it? And, when it's time that I must boot from it, must I rename it before booting from it, or can I boot from it (after all, it may be my only bootable disk at this point), rename it to Macintosh HD, and then reboot?

dnanian
12-08-2004, 12:40 AM
It's not tiresome, Bud: I'm just not sure how to best explain it. But I'll try.

When you're just backing things up, it doesn't matter what the name of the backup drive is. The files are being copied to it, but nothing's getting "resolved", as such, so the name of the destination volume doesn't matter. Naming it "Backup" (or whatever) is just fine.

The problem comes when you want to restore. If you boot from the clone, and it's got a name that's different from the original drive (under Jaguar, especially), aliases often will be resolved to the "path of least resistance" -- namely, the original volume name. So, you'll end up running programs from the original drive, rather than the current one.

So, what I'd recommend -- should it come time to restore -- is to boot from the backup drive and -- first thing -- rename the main drive to something other than Macintosh HD. Then, you should be able to run SuperDuper!, restore the drive, and rename it back without ending up running things from it you don't want run.

Note that, if you're using Smart Update to restore, this step is likely not necessary. It won't matter if files are busy on the drive, because Smart Update won't need to erase it. So, in that case, you can leave it as Macintosh HD.

Once you upgrade to Panther, this stuff becomes less necessary, as Panther doesn't seem to have the same problem.

On a slightly different note, I don't think renaming the drive caused you to have to repair it in Disk Warrior. I think that was something else entirely. You should be able to rename drives are pretty much any time, but remember that Aliases have the volume name in them, and they're going to try to "find" their original file. How that happens is different under Jaguar and Panther, and may be different again in Tiger. So, programs that store file references as aliases might operate slightly unusually after renaming -- or, in your previous case, booting from a clone.

Any clearer?

BudSimrin
12-08-2004, 10:41 AM
Dave, thanks so much. I believe you have just provided the definitive answer. This explains how to do everything exactly the way I am comfortble with. I can make full backups and have all the drives retain their current names (except during brief transitional periods).

Now, as soon as you figure out the workaround for Apple's Jaguar bug that prevents saving of configurations, I'll not only have the ability for regular backups but I'll also be able to adopt your recommended scheme of maintaining a sandbox and booting from it.

;) :)

dnanian
12-08-2004, 10:44 AM
Good: I'm glad it was clearer.

The save/load settings bug has definitely been worked around internally and you should have a link to a pre-release build in your email. If all goes as planned we will release it to the public tomorrow.

BudSimrin
12-09-2004, 12:46 AM
When does Jaguar update the aliases? Does it do them all at once when you boot or does each alias get updated as it is used? I think the latter because otherwise your process above wouldn't work. Also, right after cloning while still in Macintosh HD I did an INFO of a link in BKUP and it pointed back to Macintosh HD so I presume it resolved (incorrectly) at that time.

That said, if I use your sequence of steps above to clone and then boot BKUP and rename Macintosh HD to something else, when I clone from BKUP to restore I presume all the links on BKUP get activated and thus resolved correctly because Macintosh HD is nowhere to be found (i.e., renamed) and the path of least resistance is to associate with the corresponding path on BKUP. But, don't we have to do a similar step after we rename the original drive back to Macintosh HD and then we boot Macintosh HD? At this point won't the aliases on Macintosh HD resolve incorrectly unless I immediately rename BKUP to something else and then do something to force all the aliases to resolve (like doing another clone)? Then I can restore the name of BKUP.

This is trickier than I was expecting.

:eek:

dnanian
12-09-2004, 10:25 AM
I believe Jaguar is only going to update aliases when the aliases are referenced. So, when you launch an application, its alias is updated. So, when you did a Get Info -- yes, it resolved.

When you restore the disk, the restored disk is going to be named "Macintosh HD", so when you boot the aliases should be fine. And, if you remove the Backup volume before you boot from Macintosh HD again, there's nothing else for it to resolve to.