PDA

View Full Version : Cloning Panther & Intel-Tiger to same drive ?


tamaboyz
06-03-2006, 11:44 PM
After years of use of CCCloner this March I acquired the SD licence after reading raving comments on the Australian ADSL bible website Whirlpool which has an Apple section Forum: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-threads.cfm?f=38
I am a terminally SD convert now.

I have used SD with an Ext LaCieDrive(firewire400) that I have partitioned in 3 :

-partition 1 harbouring a bootable clone of my present eMac Panther 10.3.9
-partition 2 for storage
-partition 3 of 80Gig I have kept empty to harbour a bootable clone of my new -soon to be delivered- MacBook.

My Apple store is telling me that I can clone the IntelMacBook with SD on partition 3 but it cannot be a "bootable" one.

could you please confirm that and venture on how I could go about achieving that, or if I have to forget about it and get another dedicated ext DD to backup a bootable clone of my MacBook.

the eMac and the MacBook would never be firewire connected to the HDD at the same time but would read/write partition 2 of storage.

many thank to enlighten me (totally lost)
Tamarama Beach Australia

dnanian
06-04-2006, 11:34 AM
Your Apple store is incorrect: Intel Macs can boot from Apple Partition Map (APM) external drives. So, it should work fine. Just don't try to boot the Intel Mac from a Power PC based OS, or vice versa.

Hope that helps, and hellp to everyone at the Whirlpool forums -- I'm happy to hear you guys are talking about SuperDuper!

tamaboyz
06-05-2006, 10:04 AM
Thank you Dave for your quick answer (do you actually have a life ?)

So to paraphrase you - you are saying :
an IntelMac "you mean:CLONE" can boot from Apple Partition Map (APM) external drives.
right ? (even if said partition was cut by DiskUtility under Panther?)

Now I am totally confused by your advice:
Just don't try to boot the Intel Mac from a Power PC based OS, or vice versa....

The bootable clones (eMac-clone + Macbook-clone) I would create with SD (the eMac Panther is already working fine) are only for security in case I lose the originals and need to clone them back to their native hardware,
as my firewire cable will be connecting only eMac with ext HDD or only MacBook with ext HDD.never the 3 together.

So yes I would reboot from HDD eMac clone to SD clone it back to eMac
or I would reboot from HDD MacBook clone to SD clone it back to MB.

How would you rephrase your advice above using the (numbers) ?
I will have eMac(1)
I will have MacBook(2)
I will have eMac clone on ext HDD(3)
I will have MacBook clone on ext HDD(4)

many thanks to enlighten me this Intel shift is daunting and scary
cheers

dnanian
06-05-2006, 10:40 AM
There are a lot of numbers in there, and questions, but the answer in the end is simple. It doesn't matter what partitioned the drive, Panther is fine.

If you make a copy of an Intel Mac on a partition, only an Intel Mac can boot from that partition. Other partitions on the same drive can host copies from Power PC based Macs. But a copy of a Power PC based Mac cannot be used to boot an Intel Mac.

It sounds like you understand that, so you're in good shape.

tamaboyz
06-06-2006, 07:15 AM
Sorry for draging it -
I am so worried to break everything.
I really appreciate the time you have taken to answer me and I am very honored to have had advice straight from the horse's mouse (that's you) it is a godsend and I really appreciate.
cheers from Tamarama Beach Australia

dnanian
06-06-2006, 08:59 AM
I understand your concern, of course. But, with a modicum of care, I think you'll have a good experience doing this. Good luck! :)

gbdoc
06-06-2006, 11:10 AM
Dave, just for the sake of clarity: I just ordered a G-Tech 250GB G-Drive Combo (FW 400 & USB 2.0). Since I plan to partition it, and use one partition for regular bootable-clone BU's of a soon-to-be-purchased MacBook (Intel, probably with at least Tiger), I asked G-Tech first whether the drive would be bootable for me. Their answer:

"Yes and it will only boot Intel-Macs. You will be able to boot Intel Macs if you FORMAT it correctly and install the proper OS 10.4.x version on the G-drive Combo.See link http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=08405 <http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=08405>"

The link points to an article explaining in cogent detail that "Intel Macs can't boot from older APM drives, and PowerPC-based Macs can't boot from newer GPT drives." (Incidentally, the article also says that the data on the drive can be used by either Mac, regardless how the drive is formatted; only the bootability is crucially affected.)

Now you say that that's not true, that the decisive factor is not the partitioning scheme but the version (PPC or Intel) of the OS which is installed. Obviously I don't care one way or the other, as I can do either, but I have to be able to do it right.

My planned setup: MacBook with 80GB drive. External 250GB FW drive, partitioned 80/170. I wouldn't actually install the OS on the FW drive, but I would use SD! to make clones of my internal HD to the 80GB partition of the FWD (the other 170GB is for storage of non-essential files, and has no immediate bearing on the present question).

1. From what you say, these clones are bootable by an Intel Mac, even if the FWD is APM-partitioned. Right?

2. A further implication of what you say concerns partitioning utilities like MicroMat's DiskStudio, which can create and resize partitions "on-the-fly". They say their product is not yet compatible with Intel Macs, and will have to be updated. I gather they currently make APM volumes. If what you say is true, I could indeed use DiskStudio to partition my new FWD as I described above. If I later wanted to resize the partitions, I could, without having to reformat the disk, thus erasing its data, as is necessary with DiskUtility. Right?

Please forgive this long post, but I couldn't make it shorter. Forgive me also for sounding like I might be doubting your word. You've always been reliably right when I've asked for help or advice. But in this case there seems to be very conflicting information from reliable sources.

dnanian
06-06-2006, 11:50 AM
Intel macs can boot from APM-partitioned FireWire drives: I test this all the time. It works.

Whether the G-Drive will only work on Intel macs, regardless of partitioning, I don't know. That's something you'd have to test.

I don't know whether Micromat can retain whatever OSX does to the volume on Intel to make it bootable. You can try, of course, and it would certainly get "fixed" if you updated the backup.

Hope that helps.

gbdoc
06-08-2006, 10:47 AM
OK, Dave. If you say so, I trust it's so. But then what?

Scenario (not yet done, because I don't yet have the hardware in my hands, but this is what I plan to do): I've got a new MacBook, and a FWD which is APM-partitioned, onto which I've cloned (with SD!) the MacBook. As you say, I can boot the MacBook from this clone. Let's assume I have a problem on my MacBook such that I want to clone the FWD back to the MacBook, and I do so (Erase & Clone). Will that back-clone on the MacBook be bootable on the MacBook? It would have to be, for any of this to make practical sense, and I assume your answer to my question took this scenario into consideration. But Apple has a KB article, http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220, which complicates this whole thing in my mind. :confused:

dnanian
06-08-2006, 10:53 AM
Yes, it will. You'll format the *internal* drive with GUID, and copy the data back.

gbdoc
06-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Duh. My eyes were reading and my fingers were writing, but my mind was apparently not in gear. Thanks for your patience.

dnanian
06-08-2006, 02:29 PM
No problem at all.

tamaboyz
06-09-2006, 09:57 PM
Hello Dave
the author of this article says that Super Duper crashes and he seems to assume that SD is not "MacIntel" compatible at this stage, until an update comes out.
<<I also tried SuperDuper, but that crashed on launch. I suspect I need an Intel-compatible version.>>
http://rentzsch.com/tidbits/intelbasedMacBootIncompatibility

and again without any mention of SD this time, this statement
<<Intel-based Macs can't boot from older APM drives>>
http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=08405

really confusing when you say that you have tested that to work many times around.
I can't wait to receive my MacBook to check that out

have you been able to do it gbdoc ?
cheers

dnanian
06-10-2006, 12:25 AM
SuperDuper! is working fine as of v2.1: that article came out a long, long time ago, tamaboyz...

tamaboyz
06-10-2006, 09:30 AM
yes january and we are june now - no wonder - that explains it all
apologies
can't wait
cheers

2stepbay
06-11-2006, 04:31 PM
Following this thread to its logical conclusion:

What would happen if I inadvertently attempted to boot an Intel based clone on a PowerPC system, or vice versa? Not sure how this would be possible. The incompatible clone would not show up in the Startup Disk panel, nor show up as an option on a reboot (depressing the option key).

However this happens (like to hear the possible scenarios), would OS X create an error message, show a spinning wheel, or crash, thereby corrupting the clone?

dnanian
06-11-2006, 04:45 PM
It'll most definitely crash. Whether it'll corrupt the disk, I don't know...

2stepbay
06-11-2006, 05:36 PM
So, under what scenario could you even attempt an inadvertent boot to an Intel or PPC clone? It seems the disk would not be recognized. Or am I missing something here?

dnanian
06-11-2006, 05:49 PM
It's unlikely, of course. It's hard to imagine how it would happen... but if there's a way to do it, I wouldn't recommend trying. :-)

(I'm certain, for example, you could restore a PPC volume to an internal drive on an Intel mac. But don't.)

mmurray
06-12-2006, 05:36 AM
For a variation on the above questions my wife and I both have Powerbooks which I used to backup by closing to a single drive with two partitions. I have just bought a MacBook which is of course Intel Mac. Can I just run SD on Smart Backup to the same partition or do I need to erase and start again on that partition. If I have to erase do I need to reformat with the Disk Copy on the Intel Mac or does SD handle that?

I am assuming from all the above discussions that I will end up with one partition that can boot my wifes PB and another that can boot my MB. Very nice!

Thanks -

Michael

dnanian
06-12-2006, 08:17 AM
If there's enough headroom for SuperDuper! to make the copy, it's no problem to use Smart Update on the drive, no matter what was on it before.

And, yes: as long as the external drive is partitioned with APM (Apple Partition Map), it should work fine with both machines.