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jkenneym
10-13-2004, 03:28 PM
G4 867Mc 60GB 640MB

Backing up to new, unused 80GB OWC Mercury Elite Pro FW400

23GB used space on PowerMac HD; 12GB used in first Backup on OWC FW400. 20 minutes and change.

I see within the "What's going to happen?" panel:

"All files on Macintosh HD will be copied to Backup, except the temporary and system-specific files that Apple recommends excluding."

11GB not in Backup. Izzat right?

Thanks

Kenney

:confused:

dnanian
10-13-2004, 03:51 PM
Well, if you've got 11GB of things in your temporary directory or swap files, yeah, that's right. We've never had a report of files not being copied that should be, so I can only assume that your backup proceeded properly.

Try booting from the backup, Kenney! Does it seem right?

jkenneym
10-13-2004, 07:15 PM
Yes, Dave, got successful boot from the FW drive - hallelujah! What I am not understanding is 11GB of temporary directory, system-specific, or swap files.

Thanks,

Kenney

dnanian
10-13-2004, 07:25 PM
Well, without thoroughly examining your drive, it's hard for me to tell you what's in your various folders. But if you look at the scripts included in Backup - all files, you can see what's being excluded. By examining those folders in Terminal, you can determine how large they are (and, by checking the contents, why they're so large!) -- that should set your mind at ease!

jkenneym
10-14-2004, 12:07 PM
As you suggested looking "at the scripts included in Backup - all files," excluded are 4 files:

Norton FileSaver files.dset
Previous Systems.dset
system cache files.dset
system temporary files.dset

Now the sticking point for this "senior dummy" is that I've never gone muddling about in Terminal and have strong inclination not to do so even though there is also strong urge to be rid of what must be a great deal of useless junk in that 11GB.

I would appreciate your directing me to inexpensive shareware, Apple Knowledge Base or whatever might allow me to fuddle with Terminal without "getting my fingers burned."

Thanks,

Kenney

dnanian
10-14-2004, 02:54 PM
Kenney,

From what you're describing, you're not looking at the "Backup - all files" script. You're looking at something else, probably the Safety Clone. That would also account for the difference in size.

A Safety Clone -- which excludes Previous Systems and other things -- is not a backup, and should not be used for that purpose.

The "Backup - all files" script only excludes System Temporary files and Norton FileSaver files. If you're not running Norton, the FileSaver stuff doesn't really matter. The System Temporary are things like the Temporary Items folder, Desktop DB, mach and mach.sym, the Journal files, core dumps, temporary and swap files. None of which *should* be copied anyway.

So -- judging from what you're saying, it's very likely you're using the wrong script. Sound plausible?

jkenneym
10-15-2004, 02:55 PM
Selected on the primary SuperDuper! window are:

Copy (Macintosh HD) to (OWC Mercury Elite)

using script named (Backup-all files)


Going to File>Open Copy Script opens Finder window with (Copy Scripts) at top and [folder] Standard Scripts at top of left column. Opening "Standard Scripts" shows in second column listing of included scripts and the 4 scripts entitled "Exclude" listed in previous post.

I followed the procedure in the User Manual, Section 3- Making your first backup, pp. 7-11 which is straightforward with little opportunity to drift into "Safety Clone" so where did I go astray?

Thanks,

Kenney

dnanian
10-15-2004, 03:04 PM
Nope -- you didn't go astray during the backup... you went astray slightly with the scripts, but that's OK! (And good news.)

The scripts listed in "open scripts" are *all* the scripts, not just the one you're running. If you open the script pop-up, and then choose "edit selected script", then click the tab for "included scripts", you'll see the two scripts that are actually included in Backup -- all files.

In any case, you really sound all set! If you want to look at the files that are excluded, as before, just open the folders listed in the message above, or in the script. But, I truly think you're just fine...

jkenneym
10-15-2004, 04:32 PM
OK, Dave. Following through your script pop-up, edit selected script, included scripts tab, I found the two files:

Exclude system temporary files.dset
Exclude Norton FileSaver files.dset

Not using Norton so now the concern about the wasted 11GB is concentrated in just two files instead of four.

When you say "just open the folders..." I guess you are stil speaking of Terminal.

Thanks again,

Kenney

dnanian
10-15-2004, 04:47 PM
OK, let me be more explicit about what you have to do:

Each of those two scripts also is a script. Double-clicking it will show you what the script contains. Then, switch to the commands tab. You'll see a list of files and folders. Those are the excluded ones (the command in front, ignore, tells SuperDuper! to not copy).

Here's a complete list:

.Trashes (the system/root level trash can -- not your personal one)
.vol (a special system folder, recreated dynamically)
.journal_info_block (special, disk-specific file for journaling)
.journal (ditto)
mach (OS boot file, recreated by SuperDuper, volume specific)
mach.sym (ditto)
Temporary Items (temporary items)
Desktop DB (OS9 desktop, rebuilt automatically)
Desktop DF (ditto)
Volumes (contents, recreated automatically by OS)
cores (contents, core dumps, technical stuff, temporary)
private/Network/* (special network browser info, created by OS at boot)
private/_Network_/* (ditto)
private/var/vm (special OS swapfiles, created as needed by OS)
private/automount/* (special network browser info, created by OS)
/private/var/tmp/* (temporary files)
private/var/run (special temporary files)
private/automount/* (special network browser info, created by OS)
Library/Frameworks/Stuffit.framework/.DS_Store (special bad file created by some installs of Stuffit)

To open the folders, you'll use "Go To Folder..." in the Finder. Even if you can't "see" the folder in the main window, you'll be able to open most folders using the finder this way.

Note, though -- if you're uncomfortable with the Terminal (which you don't have to use), I'm not entirely sure what you're going to make of the contents of these ignored folders and files! These are pretty low-level things that we've ignored because Apple has said they shouldn't be copied, for the most part. If they're large on your system, that's unusual, but it'd require someone with pretty thorough OS X knowledge to diagnose completely. But it's very, very, very unlikely that your own files are stored in these locations.

I hope that explains a bit better.

jkenneym
10-15-2004, 11:42 PM
Thanks again Dave. I was able to go through that all the way to " 'Go To Folder...' in the Finder." No matter, as you say, I wouldn't be able to decipher any of those folders anyway.

So now the strategy of erasing the PowerMac HD seems like a possibility. Can I do that and then copy the Backup from the FW drive back to the Mac HD?

Kenney

dnanian
10-16-2004, 09:44 AM
Well, if you boot from it, you can do that. However, in this thread at least, you haven't indicated why you want to do it!

Why do you want to erase the drive?

jkenneym
10-16-2004, 03:49 PM
I think that erasing the PM HD and reinstalling from Backup would get rid of a big part of that 11GB that Apple deems worthy of "excluding." Also, I now have become suspicious of that 11GB as something in there might be causing a little anomalous behavior now and then that neither TechTool Pro or DiskWarrior have been able to correct.

Any good reason not to erase the HD on the PowerMac?

Thanks much,

Kenney

dnanian
10-16-2004, 05:25 PM
Kenney --

Yes. It would get rid of that 11GB. But I can't see how that particular information, which is of a temporary/transient nature, could cause anomalous behavior. And, given the size of it, I'm not entirely sure what the data in there actually is.

I'm certain that SuperDuper! has created a good backup (which you should update, given the amount of time in between the last backup and now). But I don't think that I'd erase my drive without a definitive goal in mind that I was sure I could accomplish by erasing it. (Example: repartitioning it, severe fragmentation, etc.)

Anyway, here's what I'd suggest. Update your backup. Then, send your SuperDuper!.log -- which you'll find off your Home folder in Library/Logs -- as an attachment to support -at- shirt-pocket.com. I'll take a look at it to make sure that you're ready to erase, if that's what you really want to do.

jkenneym
10-16-2004, 09:05 PM
SuperDuper!.log sent.

Kenney

jkenneym
10-17-2004, 06:30 PM
This is to report success in the erasure of the PowerMac HD and copy thereto from the Backup FW drive. The "extra" 11GB of used space on the PM HD is gone!

This after an exchange of several emails with Dave in which he checked out a few things and deemed the proposed erasure probably safe. He believes a previously installed backup app, not SuperDuper!, had been backing up files into /Volumes and thus were not noticed.

When I said that the PowerMac now seemed snappier Dave directed me to his white paper on defragmentation on the SuperDuper! page.

This was a very rewarding process all thanks to Dave and SuperDuper!

Kenney